EPISODE 24: HÉCTOR PADILLA, VICE PRESIDENT AT COVALON TECHNOLOGIES

Episode’s transcript

Julio Martínez: 0:05

Welcome to the LATAM Medtech Leaders podcast. This is a weekly conversation with medtech leaders who have succeeded in Latin America. Today our guest is Hector Padilla. Hey Hector, it's great to have you here today, welcome to the show!

Héctor Padilla: 0:23

It is great to be here, Julio, it is a true pleasure to be part of your podcast.

Julio Martínez: 0:28

Awesome, Héctor. Well, audience, Hector Padilla is Covalon Technologies’ Vice President, Strategic Markets focusing on developing commercial and go-to-market strategies for new and existing markets globally. Hector has more than 27 years of B2B and B2C experience in marketing, sales, and business development for fortune 100 companies and, small and medium enterprises. Héctor built a network of partner distributors across Latin America to commercialize Covalon’s portfolio of unique advanced wound care and infection prevention unique products while developing strong relationships with key opinion leaders and experts. Héctor holds a BA in Business administration from the Jose Maria Vargas University in Caracas- Venezuela, and a Master in Business Administration, with a concentration in marketing from the Sawyer Business School at Suffolk University in Boston. So, Hector, I really look forward to our episode today, and let's start off by briefly telling listeners about your journey to Latin America. How do you get involved with the region?

Héctor Padilla: 1:38

Well, I started working with Cavalon, just about five years ago. That time Covalon was exploring, opening, or expanding their business in Latin America, I joined the team and starting to really open up and understanding the Latin American business. At the time I was living in Toronto, I'm originally from Venezuela, as you said, and part of Covalon's strategy was to actually expand beyond what at that time was the current business. Then at that moment, my mandate was to basically just open Latin America, and, I started to go deep into the region, understanding each country. That's how I started to actually get my feet wet into the Latin American market within the medical devices environment.

Julio Martínez: 2:26

Excellent. So this is just your general question then we'll get deeper into the details but, what is your overall perception of Latin America as a place to conduct, either first in human clinical research, if you have experience with that or to commercialize medical technologies?

Héctor Padilla: 2:45

Well, it's a fertile ground. It's an exciting region, rich with opportunities and what those opportunities are just driven by the uniqueness of each market. It is a market that the steel is behind on some of the latest technology, but it's really eager to adopt new technology that would not only make the life of the population better but actually improve the costs on the health system. As you know, it is a region where most of the investment is driven by the public sector so that becomes a very interesting and dynamic challenge to make sure that new products and innovation can actually permeate into the system. Developing new clinical trials is exciting as well because again, some of their key opinion leaders are eager and hungry for new technology, and you'll be surprised, I'm sure you're not, but it can be surprising how open they are to try new ideas to actually test new products and how important that is for the region. It's just to have clinical data that comes from the region, even though each country is different as we all know, but it is important to have a good weight as you tried to get into the region.

Julio Martínez: 4:14

Very good. So, Hector, what major trends do you see in Latin America that are relevant to our discussion today about commercializing medical technologies?

Héctor Padilla: 4:24

It's a mix of, as I said, of needing new technology to advanced the wellbeing of the population while balancing what it is a tightness on the span behind medical products, so that balance actually is something that you have to deal on a daily basis, you want to bring new products, but they have to make sense from the economic perspective. So that's a major trend. The other trend that I see is the, again, the eagerness of people wanting to do work within their boundaries, but then the frontiers people within each one of the countries really eager to take new technology and apply it to their patients and once they see those results, really being able to share that with their peers on their population. So I see those two trends, again, it's just the balance of bringing a new product, being hungry for new products while balancing the span of what that entails on the economic formula and then the openness to try new products and develop a clinical work within the region.

Julio Martínez: 5:48

Any economic or epidemiology trends do you see?

Héctor Padilla: 5:53

Well, I think really what they're trying to do is just balanced their spend. We have a wave of new governments within the region and even though they're trying to bring better technology to their population, they're keeping tight and tight control over tendering process over expenditure and having said that, once you can prove to them the benefit of the product, no only on the clinical side, and how that would impact their economic formula, how would that on the medium and longterm reduce the spend. That's really the winning formula, that's what I see right now on the economic trends, it is just being able to show that your product is going to maximize the expenditure from the public sector. At the same time, mostly on the private sector, there is a higher awareness of the benefit of reducing things like infections or acquires in hospitals; that is key mostly on the private sector. They're highly aware of the risks and they're open to invest on technologies that would allow them to reduce the potential for hospital acquired infections.

Julio Martínez: 7:11

Got it. Great, Héctor, let's move on: let's dive into your practical experience, commercializing medical technologies in the region. I love to hear your thoughts in suggested best practices. So let's get started with analysis based on your experience. First, please tell us in what countries have you worked in Latin America?

Héctor Padilla: 7:37

I've worked from Mexico to Argentina. So if I need to list them all, we go from Mexico to Panamá, Costa Rica Colombia, Peru, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, if I didn't mention Colombia, Puerto Rico. So I've been from Mexico to Argentina, that has been the reach that I've had, I've spent a lot of time on each one of those countries and that has been a key on some of the key milestones that we have reached within Covalon Technologies. It is really spending time, being committed to the region, and understanding that is a region with diverse countries that we are not one country and that's what actually makes it our reach and highly productive areas. We are an aggregate, that's the word that I like to use for the region, we're an aggregate; we have two massive markets like Mexico and Brazil. However, we have an aggregate of countries with great potential that makes the region highly interesting.

Julio Martínez: 8:54

Yeah, very good. So in terms of your strategy in Latin America, do you have a proactive and well thought-out strategy for the region where you create a market access plan for each country you were planning to enter, or do you have an opportunistic reactive approach where you just waiting for the distributer to show up and contact you?

Héctor Padilla: 9:16

No, no. My style is to be quite structured. So what I did early on within the first few months after I got the mandate from our leadership in Covalon was to develop a tiered strategy. I developed the region, I segmented the region in three tiers and then I proceeded to attack the top two tiers, and again, just making sure that I leveraged my resources and my time on the markets that were the most important. Having said that, I was flexible enough to understand some of the opportunities within the market, when I talk about tiering the region, I, of course, identified the population and GDP, but then what we call the health index so the health investment index and based on that I started to get into some of the most relevant countries. In addition to that, what I did is that I understood the opportunities. There are some countries that even though it might be very attractive from the market size perspective and even the health investment perspective, they have a quite cumbersome and long regulatory process. So I took that into account as well. There are some other markets that have less barriers or less internal processes that would allow you to actually get into the market quite quick. For example, Chile, it is a market at the moment do not require a formal registration or certification within their a health body which allow you to actually get into the market quite quick. Having said that, and for that specific reason, it is a market that is quite crowded with multiple brands from all over the world. So that makes it, again, that's another challenge but, just going back to your question, Julio, I use the combination of a very structured strategic approach looking at metrics and data, and then I added some of the opportunities that I saw while being in the market and understanding the dynamics of each country.

Julio Martínez: 11:34

Very well said. All right, so in your opinion, Hector, what are some of the best practices to find a distributor in Latin America?

Héctor Padilla: 11:43

Yeah, the way I'd like to see it then and elect to talk to my team about it is just threefold, and even to our senior leadership with Covalon, It is commitment. That's the first one, and commitment doesn't really mean just going in once in a while and saying: hey, we're here, no, commitment means the resources, time, efforts; the other one it is really spending time in the country, getting to know the different dynamics within each country, and the third one it will be really building connections within the country, understanding who are the key opinion leaders, understanding what the important bodies that actually drive the standard of care, and that's what really is gonna make you relevant, spending time being committed and building relationships. Once you build those relationships, that will take you a long way because then you have the opportunity to actually talk about your product, understanding what are the needs within the market; each market is different, as I already said, but that commitment, that time that you invest on each one of these markets, those relationships that you build are the ones that are really going to carry your product, carry your company, carry your brand into the market. So, those are the what I call the best practices, what I would recommend. We're very particular and each country is different and we as Latin Americans, we can tell when somebody has a true interest and commitment for our markets. So you need to be true, you need to be realistic, but really be committed. That's what I would say are my key recommendations for best practices for the region.

Julio Martínez: 13:43

Very good. So did you have or do you, you're still active in the region, do you have a hands-off management approach which just sells products to distributer and just let the distributer do its magic or whatever you expect them to do? Or do you have a more hybrid approach where you have a local clinical sales agent or somebody on the ground to support the work of the distributor? I mean, what's your strategy in the region?

Héctor Padilla: 14:16

Yeah, it's a bit of a, I will call it a hybrid for the point of view that, and again, I've used this word quite frequently today maybe, but I base my strategy on building strong relationships and what that gives you and put in that investment, that downpayment early on is that would allow you to work very closely with your distributor partners at the same time that you letting them do the work because that's why you're working with them, right? They're the experts on the ground. However, it is vitally important that you support them. So, I'm on weekly calls with most of them providing clinical information through our clinical liaison team on our head office on a very regular basis. I'm on calls with the key opinion leaders almost on a monthly basis, we are identifying and looking into business opportunities and really truly becoming a partner. So my team here in our Miami office works very close with each one of our partners, giving them heads up of business opportunities, partnering with them on things like pricing, like new products, like clinical data, working with them on local congresses, where we go and we know sometimes we're bringing speakers, sometimes we go ourselves and actually connect with the local authorities. So it's a bit of a hybrid, but there are multiple branches that go into that relationship and at the end of the day they are ones that are actually walking the streets; even though I invest quite a bit of time at my team as well here on being on the ground and walk in the streets with them as much as we can. At the end of the day you have to trust them and a lot of that trust comes from the relationship that you build early where you actually trust them, you know t hat they have the skills, they have the team, you know they have a great product in their hands and y ou provide the support through clinical information, support on a daily basis, having conversations with them and their sales team through training, but at the end of the day I will leave them up to them to actually go and be doing the work. You want to invest the time on preparing them, making sure they're confident, they're actually bringing your message the right way.

Julio Martínez: 16:40

Very good, Hector. You mentioned something about clinical data. Could you please expand on that?

Héctor Padilla: 16:45

Sure. Our products on the advanced wound care and hospital-acquire and the prevention of hospital acquired infections, they're heavy on clinical data, there's a lot of clinical work being done behind this product. So what we do is that we actually share that data with them, make them highly familiar with them, understand them, and make them actually very comfortable talking about it, speaking about it. At the same time, we like to identify opportunities to actually develop local data, local clinical data, and we have put a lot of focus on that because in Covalon we are mostly a scientific product development competent and now we are commercializing globally but our foundation is that, it's product development. So we look for those people that are really interested in developing clinical data clinical cases on each one of the markets so just to give you an idea, we're currently working with local key opinion leaders from Panama to Argentina, to Chile, to Mexico, where we have key people, key opinion leaders in those markets, they are currently working with our products, and that's a key part of it. So that's what I mean with clinical data, they are really keen on putting the time and using your product in their patients and seeing the results, putting clinical work together that afterward can be published or leveraged no only in the region but then globally as examples of success. So that's what I mean with data, just putting that information on their hands, but the ones that they haven't developed, at the same time that we have a team that actually works with them on almost a daily basis. We have a clinical liaison team and our head office that working directly with key opinion leaders, surgeons, nurses on each one of these markets, supporting them as they develop work for us.

Julio Martínez: 18:48

That's really interesting. I wish more companies would do that. That's so key in Latin America. All right, fantastic. Hector, let's switch gears now; we know that obtaining regulatory approvals and market clearance is a big huddle for many companies. So I like to expand upon your experiences here, I'm pretty certain you're being involved in these registrations, regulatory registration, processes. Is that correct?

Héctor Padilla: 19:21

Yeah, it was very correct. I still in.

Julio Martínez: 19:24

Okay, very good. So let's dig a little deeper in each country to discuss tips and traps to avoid when obtaining regulatory approvals. So let's start with Mexico, what's your impression of COFEPRIS and the regulatory approval process?

Héctor Padilla: 19:39

COFEPRIS is a highly complex body, but it's a body that actually you can work with once you have the right partner. Mexico is a very particular market where having somebody that actually knows the lay of the land is very important. We work with a highly skilled and important local partner Medici, which they are basically our eyes and ears on the regulatory side in Mexico, we work in partnership with them, with COFEPRIS and to the point that I've been in line at six o'clock in the morning in front of COFEPRIS, I'm not getting enough, just eating there and drinking coffee on that long line of six o'clock in the morning just to get an appointment to have conversations with them in our files; you need a partner actually will go and spend the time and, it is as keen and passionate about your business. COFEPRIS takes time, you need to be very diligent, they have implemented in the past a few different paths like the fast track, like the third authorized. I think right now they are pretty equal on timing, if you go through a regulatory partner or a third authorized, they are working much better now, maybe about eight months ago it was a bit of over transition time let's put it that way, after the new government came on board, now they are actually performing at a good pace. So Mexico is in a good place, still, it is not a short timeline, don't misunderstand me but, it is a little more predictable, you understand what's going to happen on the first three months where they are going to be reviewing your file and they are going to come back to you with questions and then in the next three months they're going to be actually potentially coming up with an outcome or further questions but if you do the homework, if you prepare early on with somebody that knows the market, knows the information that COFEPRIS needs then, that's actually going to alleviate a little of the pain. It is not an easy process actually it is a highly complex process, it can take longer. For us actually took us a long time because we were having a lot of those growing pains, understanding the dynamics but now we're seeing a lot of the benefits of that learning and, we've seen some of the processes that we're just starting again, some of the new wave of registration that we're bringing to Mexico for some very new and exciting products. We know now what to expect. So, COFEPRIS is something that's highly complex, other people are sometimes afraid of it but it's actually working much better and is highly predictable, but again, it's just the whole thing about being there. When I say that I stand in line at six o'clock in the morning, t's just to say that you just need to have the commitment as I said early on. So, that is my experience with COFEPRIS. If I can kind of continue to go through some of the other countries, in Panama is a very different process, again, just knowing how to develop the Ficha Técnica that will really help on setting you up, if there is a similar product already approved then, that's going to help you through the process. It can be a process that may take you between three and six months in Panama but, it is highly manageable and predictable. In INVIMA in Colombia, it's a bit different, I think right now they are going through some transitioning time still, they're trying to do their best. Sometimes when you get into Colombia, you hear that it may take you between two and three months and that can be in theory very attractive but, the reality is that takes much longer than that and, it is a highly complex process to deal with INVIMA and, it's going to take you a little bit longer than three months realistically. If you keep going down with Peru is highly complex, actually, Peru can take a lot longer, it is not one of the shortest ones. It can take you between eight months to a year to get a registration in Peru and, it is a very deliberate process in Peru, highly complex as well in Peru. Argentina not so much so, highly predictable, it can take you depending on the product, depending on the classification of the product, of course, I just want to use that as a caveat, it depends on the classification of the product it can take you between three and six months is not uncommon. Chile, as I already said, it doesn't have at this moment, at this moment we keep hearing rumors that they will bring it in but at this moment there is no need for registration at least on the medical devices that I worked with. If you are having a more advanced product then your product probably will need some registration process. Then we get to our friends of Anvisa in Brazil, which they are well known for their complexity. The reality with ANVISA is that you have different options and depending on your product and the classification of your product, it can take from very little, if your product is a cadrastro or it can take a year to a couple of years if it is a more advanced product and what makes it complex and which you in offering this to ANVISA they are trying to improve as they are reducing the the process around, doing audits on each one of the plants that you use, which in the past will take a lot of time, will be highly expensive because they will visit each one of your locations globally so as you can imagine, that will take a lot of time. So, but they are changing some of that and they are trying to become a little more dynamic and we've seen some of those results, but again, every country is highly complex and even if I can speak briefly about Venezuela. Even there, even though with all the different complexities that currently are happening in Venezuela, it is a process that is not as challenging right now and depends on your capacity to tolerate risk. It is something that might bring more opportunities at this moment than challenges, but again, you need to have a high tolerance for risk if you are trying to get into Venezuela at this moment.

Julio Martínez: 26:26

Totally, yeah.

Héctor Padilla: 26:27

I hope that summarize it. I'm sorry if I went too long on that one.

Julio Martínez: 26:31

No, excellent. You did fantastic. So, Hector, what about holding the registration certificate? Do you usually let the distributer hold it and control it or does your company have a policy where it has ownership and control of it?

Héctor Padilla: 26:51

Yeah, well, we assess that on a market by market basis and depending on the markets that have, sometimes tougher restrictions on who can own it, sometimes you need to be a local company in order to own it or work through a holder. In other markets, you don't need to be a local company to hold it. Our preference is to actually have ownership of our registration because even though we walk into all of our relationships with our partners with the spirit of being a long-lasting relationship, we know that sometimes things can not work perfectly all the time. So we want to make sure that we have control of our future in some ways and if some relationship doesn't go the right way, then we can smoothly move into a new partner. So we try as much as we can or as much as I can be strategically feasible to hold control of our certificates.

Julio Martínez: 27:55

Okay. So let's talk about demand generation in some more details. What type of strategies and tactics have you guys done in the region to generate demand and sales and support the work of the distributors?

Héctor Padilla: 28:12

Well, we have used different strategies. The ones that we do is actually get into ground talk with the people that are really making the decisions and, that can be from a nurse in Chile to a plastic surgeon in Mexico, to a combination of both in Argentina. So, it really depends so just to give you an example of Panama for example, where we have been very successful, a lot of the work that was done is that we went into the market, we had a great partner in Panama and, we went into the market. I spent at least three days going into one care clinic and talking about our products to nurses. Nurses are the ones that actually day in and day out are using our products and I started to work with them, talked with them about our products, having them use our products in front of us with patients, and then seeing the results. That really was important because then it was easy for them to recommend our products, to be the standard of care on all wound care clinics, all 34. I think there are right now wound care clinics in Panama. So that's one way of doing it but then there is a different way of doing it. For example, in Mexico we work with key opinion leaders, there are the ones that are really driving the demand on each one of the institutions so we work with experts on wound care. We use a bit of a hybrid in Argentina where we talk with nurses and key opinion leaders through some of the congresses that happen in there but at the same time, we go out with our partner's salesforce on the basically hospital by hospital basis and talk about our products, and that really drives demand. The key thing here is to have a very specific and deliver process and, that's what we actually communicate with our partners in the region and that process always starts with sampling, having them use your product but not just freely delivering samples, it is actually being very deliberate on delivering a sample, following up, measuring the results, and then dabbled trigger that demand. So, it is a bit of a combination and every market will be different but really the dynamic is just be on the ground, having people try your product, develop their awareness of the clinical work that's being done behind that's going to drive demand. Demand is not going to happen from one day to the other but, it will, you have to be patients in Latin America, you have to be highly patient, highly aware of the demand triggers and really work and being consistent and focus on them. What has worked for us is to have a very deliberate process, a very deliberate engagement with the people that are the decision makers and understanding who are these people that are the decision-makers. For example, in Chile, even though we work very closely with the wound care Institute and to the point that our product was made part of the what the standard of care for leg ulcers, that's not enough. You need to go and spend time with the nurses, they're actually dealing with ones on a daily basis. So, you have to be highly aware of the drivers, not only the nice to have but, what the drivers are for demand.

Julio Martínez: 31:46

Very good. Alright, Hector, what about pricing? Do you feel Latin America as a very price sensitive region?

Héctor Padilla: 31:54

Absolutely. Pricing is very important and depending on the product that you're bringing in, again, there are some products where price sensitivity at less so there's some that the price sensitivity is very high and, as I said, this is a market where, in some countries, 90% of the volume goes through the public sector and, of course, the public sector will always be looking for to minimize the investment or make it more effective. The price is important. If you get into a market like, for example, Chile where you have everybody's in, as I said early on, then you're competing with multiple price points. Having said that, if you go with fair pricing and you explain the benefit of your pro products then you have a good opportunity. On the other side of that is if you have a product that's totally new because sometimes you have a product that is just not in the market, it's a category that you need to build up. You need to come prepared with what's the importance from the economic perspective for them to use your product that it is not a nice to have and nice to have doesn't work in Latin America. You have to have a purpose, a reason for a nurse or a physician that has been using your competitor's product for years and years, and you bring them something new then, you need to have a purpose. Just a nice to have in a pretty packaging is not going to cut it.

Julio Martínez: 33:31

Very interesting. What about Chinese and Indian competitors? I mean, do you see a lot of those in your sector?

Héctor Padilla: 33:38

Yeah, absolutely. In my sector, there is a combination, less Indian manufacturers, but more Chinese and Egyptians actually, but again, it depends on the country because for some of those companies not as easy to go through the highly complex process with COFEPRIS or ANVISA, you need to have the backbone to actually go through those processes. So it's not as simple for them to get in, you need to be ready for, you need to be prepared for that. Those are very dynamic processes and very intense, and some of those companies are just do not part of their business model, right? Their business model is, where can I get in the easiest with a product that might not be the highest quality, even though you can get any type of quality from those markets, but that's not their business model, right? They just need to get into the market, but they are there, they are just present, they are relevant and you might decide to go against them. We don't, we decide to actually, we know the product that we're bringing, the quality, we know who our competitors are and we maintain that in each market. We don't kind of go down to those prices because we understand where we are on quality and who our competitors are because we go against them in every market in the world, from Saudi Arabia to the US to Canada, to Puerto Rico, to Argentina.

Julio Martínez: 35:16

Okay. Hector, what about your experience with reimbursement in Latin America? Have you been involved with conversations with health ministries or insurance companies to get your products in their list or something?

Héctor Padilla: 35:34

Well, we haven't really because our products are not necessarily in that environment. We have done that here in the US actually, so that is the other hat that I use but in Latin America is a bit different, at least from our products is a bit different because our products are less developed or more rudimentary wound care device and then, we have the more advanced ones. There are the ones that we are continuously having those conversations, for example, in Chile when I mentioned that we became part of the, what they called the advanced wound care tray, which makes it part of your standard of care then that is a recommendation that will go right into insurance and what the government will pay for a specific treatment of a specific type of wound. That's as far as we go, we don't necessarily get into those conversations. Those are something that our partners are more involved than what we are.

Julio Martínez: 36:35

Sure. All right, so let's talk about the importation process in the region.What do you think about it? Is it complex? Is it easy? What are your thoughts?

Héctor Padilla: 36:46

Yeah, I do not think it is that complex, depending on the country’s specific tariffs, there are more tougher on some of our distributors, but I don't see major challenges on importation. We ship most of our products out of our warehouse here in The US to any country in the world, sometimes we ship out of our warehouse in other parts of the world to other countries in the world, but the way that we have a lineup for Latin America at the moment is that we have a warehouse here in The US and from there we would ship to the country. Some of the countries use a company here in Miami, which is easier for them to collect all their products here and then ship in one package to their countries but mostly we ship out of our warehouse, which is at the moment located in the Northeast part of The US and it works with no major challenges. It depends on the country, but really we haven't seen any major challenges at the moment that I can tell.

Julio Martínez: 37:56

Very good. Alright, what about the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, I mean, what's your experience with corruption and bribery in Latin America?

Héctor Padilla: 38:08

That's an interesting question. Well being from the region, we understand that is a common practice, but I just want to make a quick comment on that, that's a common practice everywhere you go in the world, by the way. In my current role, I look after markets in the Middle East, in North America, in Asia and it is a pretty common practice everywhere you go, by the way, is not only for us, but it is common. In Covalon we don't support any of these practices, we are pretty strict, and it is part of our values and demanded from our board directors and it is something that we are very keen on expressing to our shareholders as well, but we understand that it's there. We just decided to play a different game, we don't invest time in that, we don't partake in that and that's something that we communicate very clearly to our partners in the region as well.

Julio Martínez: 39:03

Okay. So Hector, before we sign off for today, do you have any final thoughts, morsels of wisdom for our listeners? In other words, what would you say to small or mid-sized MedTech company from The US or Europe that hasn't looked at Latin America as a potential market, or just expanding, or just thinking about expanding or exploring this opportunity in the region?

Héctor Padilla: 39:32

Well, if I can just a very humbling share my experience is just that Latin America is a fertile ground for great technology. It is a region that is hungry for business to actually invest time and dedicate time on the region, but you have to be truthful, you have to commit to it, you have to invest the time early on to get to know the differences between our countries. There might be some assumptions that we are all the same, that neighboring countries are the same but we're not. A lot of what that takes is just investing time on the market, getting to know the people, getting to know the key opinion leaders. There is a massive potential in Latin America, even though our political system sometimes can be a little bit dynamic, let's call it, our markets tend to be quite resilient and Latin American market is always looking for new ideas and people that would invest time and they will reward you. Latin America as a whole tends to be highly brand loyal so if you invest the time you develop the relationship, they will stick with you, they will support your business, but you have to be truthful. You have to dedicate your time, you have to commit time, resources, and focus, and then you will see the results. You will be rewarded by it.

Julio Martínez: 41:00

Excellent, well said. So Hector, how can listeners get in contact with you?

Héctor Padilla: 41:05

Well, I'll put my email right there. You can reach out to me whenever you can, if I can help in any ways, I'm located on Covalon Technologies office in Miami as I look after Latin America and I look after globally on the Middle East, Asia as well, and some of the US markets at hpadilla@covalon.com I'd be glad to answer any questions or help in any way that I can do.

Julio Martínez: 41:37

Fantastic. Hector, thank you for that. It was truly enjoyable to speak with you today to have you on the show, thank you again, I mean, you were fantastic.

Héctor Padilla: 41:50

Thanks, Julio, I really appreciate it.

Julio Martínez: 41:51

Bye Hector.