Episode’s transcript

Julio Martinez: 0:04

Welcome to the Alta MedTech Leaders Podcast. This is a conversation with MedTech leaders who have succeeded in Latin America Today. Our guest is Federico Acosta, CEO at Custom Surgical EUG. Federico is the CEO and Co-founder of Custom Surgical, a startup based in Munich that is developing medical imaging devices with smartphones. After seven years of working in several countries in Latin America with companies such as abba , medical Optics, like a quantum medical and the Dutch Ophthalmology research center, Federico decided to start his own venture with an idea he developed while working in Chile. Ever since Custom Surgical has won several entrepreneurial grants, launched its first product on kickstarted in 2019, the micro wreck , and has been selling devices in more than 20 countries globally. Currently, custom Surgical is developing a smartphone based platform to screen retinal diseases using a patented optical system and artificial intelligence, a project specifically focused for the Latin American market . Federico was granted a scholarship and graduated from the National University of Columbia as a mechanical and electrical engineer. He's currently finishing his master's degree at the Technical University of Munich in Germany, and he will graduated from the biomedical computing , uh, program and is taking part of the star Munich community and the entrepreneur program at the Technical University of Munich as well. Federico, welcome to the show. It's great to have you here,

Federico Acosta: 1:46

Julio. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure to be on your podcast. I've been listening to it and I find it extremely, extremely interesting. Thank you very much for having me here.

Julio Martinez: 1:58

Excellent, Federico. My pleasure. Well, let's get started with the episode and um, could you please tell listeners about your journey to Latin America? How do you get involved with the region?

Federico Acosta: 2:11

Well, as you can probably tell by my accent, I was born and raised in Columbia . Actually, I did my bachelor's degree over there. I started working in Latin America in the ophthalmology world, like I would say, probably eight to nine years ago, right after I finished my bachelor's degree. And it was a great experience because I was involved with a very, very nice company that allowed me to travel to different regions in the world. I actually had the opportunity to go to the States to work with Abbott Medical Optics, then to France with ELE to Holland to work with the Dutch of Ophthalmology research center to many different places. And I was training myself to become a clinical expert. So , uh, basically I was traveling also all around Latin America, visiting several clinics and working with doctors, training them on the new technologies from all of these different companies that I was visiting and being with them during surgery, sharing my expertise and in some cases, like I said, training them on the specific devices and making sure that they were utilizing the devices on the proper way. So , uh, that's how I started over there. Uh , I was first based in Colombia , then I moved to Chile. I worked for five years, I would say. And after this five years, that's when I got the idea of starting with this product that I first created. Almost two years ago, I started ideating this product and while being in Chile, since I had so many connections over there with the doctors, I created my first prototype and I jumped from one clinic to another, testing this first prototype of this device that we call nowadays the micro, and using it with them, having their opinions, letting them, I don't know , test it and also try the system. And I think that's why my project and the company is seen in the product of course, that I created is seen as ophthalmologist as something like, as an aid in something that is not like a , a device that was developed for them, thinking on them and developed for them. That's how I got the opportunity to start over there.

Julio Martinez: 4:26

Excellent. Federico . So could you please tell listeners about your overall perception of Latin America as a place to commercialize medical technologies?

Federico Acosta: 4:37

Of course, I think it's quite a different market to what people in Europe or in the states would be used to because of course the healthcare system works very differently to how it works over here in Germany and in the states as well. Of course, the money limitations in Latin America are an issue. The way uh , the products are purchased are of course different than in Europe or in the States. And for that reason it brings opportunities, but it has to be handled on a different way. Specifically for me, it has been a great place to start. I do believe Latin America is growing rapidly in its market where we have a lot of opportunity, but uh, we have to give like a specific focus to this market because although great products might be developed in Europe and in the States, we need to give the Latin American market a different approach since it has different needs and probably the things that are like oppressing in Europe and the United States might be different to the ones that we developed for Latin America. So , uh, in case we have some good products developed for Latin America, this market is of huge potential since it's growing constantly and it offers a lot of opportunity.

Julio Martinez: 6:02

Alright , Federico , let's talk about trends in Latin America. What major trends do you see in the region that are relevant to our discussion?

Federico Acosta: 6:10

That's a very good question and I think it relates to the introduction you did about me and I'm gonna say diabetes. Diabetes you would say like it's not an ophthalmology problem, I'm focused in ophthalmology, but it is, diabetes is rising rapidly and especially in Latin America, the rate of growth of diabetes is enormous. It's just impressive. And there's one disease in ophthalmology that is related to diabetes called diabetic retinopathy. Just to give you a small example, in Colombia there's 1 million people suffering from diabetic retinopathy. Colombia is a country that has around 50 million inhabitants. That's a big part of the population living in this country. You have to identify these specific trends or illnesses that are currently taking place in Latin America. Just to give you a small example, another example in the States, the reason why like the most important reason while people get sp blinded is not due to cataract surgery as it might be in many different countries, but it's because of diabetic retinopathy as well in Mexico as well. Diabetes is rising in these countries incredibly fast and it's because of the culture that we have in our countries. We do eat a lot of sugar. There is not a lot of knowledge about the consequences of having unbalanced , uh, way of eating. And now that we have seen that, that's why we are trying to develop this product that is specifically fitted to the Latin American market because this disease is growing and because we're giving it like on a specific business model that will actually be well adopted on these countries other than probably in Europe or in the states, so to say.

Julio Martinez: 8:05

Hmm , interesting. Very good. So let's get a little deeper into the conversation in the region Puerto Rico, what specific countries have you uh , been involved or have you worked in Latin America?

Federico Acosta: 8:21

I have been based only in Colombia and in Chile, but I've been to Mexico, I've been in surgeries in Mexico, I've been in surgeries in Dominican Republic, in Venezuela, Ecuador, in Chile, of course in Argentina and Central American, many different countries, Guatemala, El Salvador. And you see like trends all over these places. It's always a situation in which there's the need, people is ready, ready for new products, new possibilities, but it has to be fitted to their market. Like in my experience, by discussing to our customers, the only situation they perceive always is that the products that they acquire from overseas, let's say once again Europe or the states, they're not fitted to their needs and that's why they're open to new products created for their specific needs. Like I would say in all of these countries that I had the opportunity to be, I always saw a trend of uh , Indian products or , uh, yeah, Chinese products growing like one step at a time, but growing and growing, although they don't have the best perception of them, basically they are fitted for those countries which are actually in the same situation that we are in Latin America. And for that reason they have had a great adoption in these markets.

Julio Martinez: 9:50

Hmm , interesting. In your , in your specific company , uh, are you selling in what countries in Latin America now with the micro req ?

Federico Acosta: 9:59

The micro rec is a very interesting example because we launched the micro rec on April last year, so it was almost a year ago. And we started with a Kickstarter campaign that is actually something that has been never seen because the way doctors are used to purchasing medical devices and stuff for their practices, you always get like one sales guy that goes to the to visit visits them, then they talk to the guy and gets negotiation starts and then after sometime they purchase the Kickstarter platform. I don't know if you've seen it, is a webpage in which you post your projects and basically people will come see your project and purchase like before they can actually get the projects. So support your project or your product like that. And when we did that campaign, we were supported by doctors in Mexico, in Chile, in Colombia , in Argentina, in Venezuela, in Ecuador, and in Peru. Just imagine without even having touched the system or seeing something similar, they understood that this was something meant for them and they bought it online with the idea that we would be delivering that product in one month after they purchased our system. So , um, currently we have sold in 23 countries and I would say we have almost the entirety of Central America covered. I think we're lacking only Honduras and then the entirety of of South America, of course without the guana in in Surina . But um, it's like a thing that it's being requested by the doctors in the entirety of the continent and therefore I would say is interesting the fact that we can actually sell to these people without needing a sales guy . And specifically, we currently sell most of our products online and that means that we are not paying for salespeople going to the different countries , uh, visiting the, the doctors and we're cutting it from the Ruth and we are selling directly from Germany, which is actually quite exciting because that way we can offer the doctors a way better price than like a regular company would do if they need salespeople and everybody going and visiting the doctors. And as a tip, I would also say that um, like the new communication channels such as Facebook, Instagram, also LinkedIn, they have been like a great marketing tool for us. I would say that at least 60% of our customers come through those channels. They see our product, they see the videos that we are capturing with the micro , by the way, just to clarify a little bit, the micro syn optical system that attaches to microscopes and allows video recording and image capturing with smartphones. So you can basically plug your smartphone to your microscope and record everything that you're doing. And since smartphones currently have such a great cameras, you can record in 4K, you can take high quality images and stream your videos or your surgeries , uh, simultaneously. You , you could be operating and basically do a WhatsApp call, a Skype call and stream what you're doing to get , I don't know, consultation if you're diagnosing a patient or something like that. So it gives a lot more functionality and to go back to what I was telling you about these together with the tools or the new marketing channels that we have available, like I said Instagram and so on, it's been very, very powerful because we record , uh, surgeries and diagnostic procedures with our device. Then we post them on social media and then other doctors get to know about our product. And of course if uh , doctor uses uses it then posts posts whatever he he did or heard or she did it , that's an amazing marketing tool and that has been like a breakthrough I would say because it's actually breaking the laws of how the medical devices industry works currently. And that's what I , what I really feel proud of and where I see a lot of potential with these new communication channels.

Julio Martinez: 14:33

Hmm , that's quite interesting Federico , but in your case, it's not a regulated product so it's um , kind of easier to implement the approach that you came up with. And you don't really need distributors, right? I mean you go directly to the end user , to the end buyer without uh , regulatory approvals and without a distributor. Is that correct?

Federico Acosta: 14:56

You are absolutely right. Yeah, of course that is an advantage that we have. We are trying to rely on the fact yeah , of course that we don't need regulations over there . The thing we're producing is an optical attachment for smartphones and therefore we need no regulations or we have no regulations. And nevertheless we do have some distributors in Mexico, in Peru and currently closing a deal in Argentina and in Colombia . And of course the idea is not to perform the same way that um, the medical industry has been working on a day-to-day basis. But uh , sometimes you also need it. Why? Because of the logistics involved in the importation of of the devices. We have been putting a price on our products so that they can enter the different countries without going through customs. So if you go higher than a price or you are gonna be needing to go through any specific customs like regulations, then we are below a certain price so that we can enter the countries easily, of course, you know , uh, paying customs and so on. But uh , without needing like another company to import the products and that's very, very, very important. With our second project though, we are gonna be actually regulated and for that one we do need to be in contact with a secondary company in the country that we were gonna be launching.

Julio Martinez: 16:25

Oh, I see. Fantastic. So how have you found distributors that you are currently working with in the country you mentioned?

Federico Acosta: 16:34

I would say the best way to do that is just joining the medical conferences. In our experience, going to conferences in Latin America, I would mention just two that we went on the past four months. One was Faco <inaudible> , which took place in Baria and was an international ophthalmology conference. And the other one, I would say the Pan-American meeting of ophthalmology, which was almost six months ago in Cancun, there is the place where all of these distributors meet and gather and also a very interesting place for sales because doctors are usually prepared to purchase , uh, devices and try new stuff over there. Why? Because of what is stated at first, if you are purchasing technology on the regular way, you are always gonna be attended by a sales guy . That salesperson is gonna come to you , uh, start negotiating, but that's gonna make the price increase and that's what we need to avoid in Latin America. That's why we need to find new selling channels and marketing channels. And that's also why going to these conferences is such a great opportunity because you have your customers to which you can be in contact directly and also possible distributors of your products that are gonna also be testing your products and checking if there's a market opportunity to your devices. If you are planning on entering to the Latin American market, I would say first step is to go to a conference with your products, let people try them out, let people test them, and get the impressions of your customers and also the distributors over there because what I felt while I was working with these major companies that sometimes these big companies that are entering the Latin American market, they want to behave the same way they behave in Europe or in the States, but it's not the case. Like purchases take longer. In our countries regulations are different. Probably the champion, so to say, the person that is gonna be supporting your product is not gonna be the one making the decision or not. So if you want to sell or start a business in this region, you have to understand how the market is. And it's actually quite different to where I'm producing over here in Germany.

Julio Martinez: 19:13

Okay. So let's talk a little bit about , um, the distributors. Something that is extremely important when dealing with new distributors is the due diligence , uh, process . You met these distributors at a conference, at a show, at an event. How have you conducted the due diligence on them? I mean h how have you ensured that they're gonna fulfill their promises and they are reparable companies?

Federico Acosta: 19:41

The first uh , thing that you should keep in mind is who are they representing? In my case, I found like the companies that are representing major companies over here in Europe as well, Leica is one example. Both of my distributors have Leica on their brochures, so to say, they are the only distributors of that company in their countries or their regions. So first take a look at what they're selling because if they're selling good products, it means that they're a sufficiently big enough company. And of course that's like my understanding being a small company that is starting in a startup so to say. But I would also suggest the following and it's due , uh, short term deals. For example, I closed the deals with these companies I would say by July or June of 2019 , and I stated that they were gonna be selling my devices for the entirety of 2019, so for six months. And if we achieved some goals during those six months, we could extend the project another year further. So , uh, by making these terms or these contracts that we do a little bit shorter, you can guarantee that you're gonna be able to see the performance of these distributors in if they actually want to sell. And if they're making a good effort on it, you're gonna be testing them like on shorter period of times than just going and extending like a project for five years and so on. And you get do this because of course I request from my distributors a starting purchase, but it's not such a huge amount of money as it would be with a major company such as Abbot Lake or something like that. If you want to close a dealership with them, you have to buy in the order of the millions of dollars to make sure that you can sell their products for a period of time of three to five years. Since we are a smaller company, of course we request an initial purchase, but it's gonna be way below the purchase that the other companies are asking for and therefore we get to make these timeframes a lot smaller than the other guys.

Julio Martinez: 22:04

Excellent, very well , uh, thought out political . How are you supporting your distributor? Are you actively involved with them? Do you have somebody locally helping them? I mean, what's your structure?

Federico Acosta: 22:17

This is interesting as well because once again, we have to operate with different tactics as the regular med tech company . So , uh, we have on our website , uh, instructive videos online and with these videos you can actually know how to assemble this , assemble the system to plug different smartphones, to plug it to different microscopes. So we have like a , a set of FAQs that we post online and everything is aided with videos specifically. So , uh, any question that might arise with the usage of our device is already answered by videos and that's our first line of support, so to say. We have everything on packages online and since our device is so easy to manipulate, you get to post all of this information and make sure that people is understanding well how they're doing it. But um, of course we have a lot of work with them. We do training calls, we sit down like other selling team and the people representing the company and we try on a period of, I would say two hours or less than that, explain all the benefits of our products and then like , um, clarify all the questions that they may have. But these , we do it from abroad, we do it from Germany and any question that they might have, they're very welcome to call us, but it doesn't happen because we have everything prepared with video aids and support like that.

Julio Martinez: 23:54

Got it, got it. Let's talk about demand generation. I mean, have you been involved in the strategies or tactics to increase demand from the end user , from the end buyer and ultimately , uh, boost sales with your distributor?

Federico Acosta: 24:10

Well, I would say since we are in the medical device industry, there are always key opinion leaders that are like a key factor to validate your product. And when we started with uh , our first product, we started giving away some of our devices to those key opinion leaders. Just to give you some names in Bogota, we have an excellent surgeon utilizing our devices every time he goes on surgery. This is , uh, Juan Paolo Pio , then a major surgeon in Barchi in Columbia as well, utilizing our devices, Dr . Luis Kaf who has the biggest clinic in Colombia and he's actually using our devices for every , uh, slid lamp , the SL lamps where they do the diagnosis. They have one of our devices on every of those slid lamps on the biggest, so to say, clinic for diagnosis that they have over there. And since they are using it and they are appreciating the product, of course they tell their colleagues about their experience and the benefits of our product and that gives us an advantage. And if the marketing on social media and those channels is not our first way of selling our devices, I would say the first way is through the doctors and through the word of mouth . Because there are huge communities of doctors in Latin America and they talk to each other and they have their own WhatsApp channels and they discuss about the technology that they have been using and they discuss about the benefits and the projects that they have ongoing. And if someone purchases your device and they feel like they made a great purchase, they are for sure gonna share that information with their colleagues. And every time we sell one device, we have another three quotations being asked by friends of this doctor or by friends of them because they always share the information. That's how it is in our world . They're a very tight community and they love to share the information to each other. And by giving them a good product and a good support and by having a great relationship with them, we had some great reviews and people actually posting videos of how they utilize our devices and the great experience that they had. And that's been actually free marketing for us. And it's been a great situation because you see doctors doing this for, for free because they're excited of what they achieved with our systems and they want to share it with the world. So I believe whenever you have a great idea and you have a great customer experience, they would be actually happy to help you. Also, the fact that I'm Latin American and that they know me for a long period of time has helped a lot because they see me as an entrepreneur from Columbia that is , uh, starting his own venture in Europe and they're like, this guy is making good things. He's from our region, we need to support that. So I've been lucky just to be on that situation.

Julio Martinez: 27:23

Interesting. So in essence you are engaging key opinion leaders on your own and that is helping the distributors business. So this , the distribu is fulfilling the demand that you are creating by you having this strong relationship with the CU leaders, is that correct?

Federico Acosta: 27:42

Exactly, but also trying to involve these CU leaders on the big social media platforms because they work, they share their work through WhatsApp and the channels that they have with their own colleagues, but they also engage on this social media and it's like a win-win because their colleagues see them utilizing these new technologies that gives them like a lot of material to talk about simultaneously. The colleagues and other people will perceive them as people involved in tech. And for that reason we benefit each other from that situation.

Julio Martinez: 28:21

Very good. All right , so let's uh, discuss pricing. I mean, do you feel that Latin America is a price sensitive region, at least in terms of your products?

Federico Acosta: 28:32

I would say it's the most price sensitive region because um , it's embedded in our culture. Like I think there's been some bad practices, of course I would never name someone, but uh , in my experience you see that , uh, some technology when it enters Latin America, sometimes distributors or or other companies taking the advantage of being the first ones conquering the market, get to put the prices like as as high as they want because it's the only solution and there is a need because you haven't seen this product or someone . But , uh, by being fair with the prices, because of course we have a very interesting device, but we're setting a price and we're never moving that price, that is the price we do not negotiate, but we are letting doctors know that we're being very transparent because I would say in Latin America there is first not as much money as there is in other regions, but second doctors like to negotiate. Why? Because they have felt always like the prices are movable. Like, you know, if you are a bigger company, if you're gonna give something special to this medical device company, you're gonna get a better price. And that's not our approach. We have been transparent from the beginning and by letting them know, look, this is our price, we're not moving the price because we're going as low as we can. So we do not negotiate. You're getting a very good product for an affordable price. But uh, like just cutting from the root, the fact that there might be some situations that might be uncomfortable and that's I think something that happens in Latin America very often. Like I told you, there's a lot of communication between doctors. If one doctor purchases something and then the other one gets a better price, that's gonna create a a funny or a weird situation and you don't want that to happen. They worry about the pricing, but they need to make sure they're getting the best price and since the best price is the only price, that's our approach just to give them one straight price. We never negotiate and I think they like that, that situation.

Julio Martinez: 30:56

Very good. Very good. Alright , Federico, let's um, talk about something else here. What about the importation process? Uh, you mentioned something about shipping devices, shipping the products under certain values. Can you expand on that please?

Federico Acosta: 31:18

Sure. Well , um, of course when we work with uh , distributors it's easier because they are used to importing technology from abroad and they know the logistics. But when you want to sell directly to your end customer, it's quite harder because we are setting a new trend and usually doctors don't ever go through a logistics process in order to import expensive devices. Therefore you have to understand how the regulations on every country are. For example, if you sell a device in Chile that is over a million pesos, which uh , a million pesos right now to the dollar today would be like, I don't know, let's say uh , $1,300. You need to have a company filing out the importation process. If you go below that price , uh, the product can get to the end customer directly, they have to pay the taxes for the importation, but uh , it's gonna be a way easier process and that's what we try to keep in mind when we are selling to these different countries, what are the regulations there? What are the maximum price? And after reviewing the situation, then we understand if we actually need to have a distributor or not, because uh, we need to tell the doctors right away, we can ship it to you, but you'll need to do this and that. So there is a lot of work involved in understanding what are the regulations or what is the maximum amount that you can send to a country before requiring a company specialized in logistics. But all of this information, of course, is open online. So if you, if you do a small review on the country that you want to tackle, you'll be able to see like, do my products need any specific or do I have to sell like below this price or over this price in order to enter the market without any specific regulations or not. Once you figure that out, you can go directly to the end customer or try and find a distributor, probably like on one of these conferences, like I said, and the distributors of course, they know how to handle the logistics, they're gonna be experts on that regard. And for example, in Mexico, they order tens of devices simultaneously. The only thing that we need to do over here is just be very structured on the documents that they need for their own customs over there. But once they do it, they handle everything with the companies, they are working on their own countries.

Julio Martinez: 34:04

Okay, excellent. Alright , so what about , uh, corruption or bribery in Latin America? Have you ever heard anything about that or have you ever been involved with , uh, situations where a distributor or a client talks about corruption or bribery?

Federico Acosta: 34:20

Hmm , of course, and especially when I was involved with my, actually not with my company because we're not big players and that's it. But , um, it does happen that people want to get some benefit and that's why I would say in Latin America's good to have very transparent and very straightforward processes and you know, who are you are gonna be dealing with because specifically in , um, let's say in public when there is a public auction and they want to purchase devices for a public hospital or something like that, sometimes the people involved in the purchase might want to take advantage of that. So of course there's no way I can, I can mention specific situations that I've seen, but uh, it does happen. And for that reason, I would just try to be absolutely transparent and try to know who you're dealing with because if there are many players involved in the purchase or the selling of devices, there might be a link on that chain that uh, is not gonna be working , uh, as it should. And you might hear that , um, there's people wanting to help you sell your devices if they get some benefits or some yeah, some advantages of that business. Of course that's one of the things that we try to avoid with our business model going directly to the end customer. But I think that's where the problem happens when you're dealing with big amounts of money. There's a lot of people involved in the business and one of the decisions makers might be willing to gain some benefits from such big purchases. So , uh, it's hard to handle. I feel like it does happen. And for that reason, it's always good to be, if you're doing like a major business, it's always good to have someone guiding you in the country that you're at. If you are not involved in major business, just try to be transparent, then put your your cards on the table as they are and always trying to avoid moving the prices, negotiate just being straightforward and setting up like a process of purchasing it and selling that. It's gonna be always the same. And that's I think the way it should be over there because you do see things like that happening.

Julio Martinez: 36:55

Okay, we're getting close to the end of the show , um, Federico . So before we sign out for today, do you have any final thoughts , uh, morsels of wisdom or other museums for our listeners? In other words, what would you say to a small or mid-size medical device company , uh, from Germany or from the US or anywhere else in Europe that hasn't looked at Latin America or is just starting to explore , uh, the region as a potential market to expand their footprint?

Federico Acosta: 37:28

Well, I would say that , um, first understand that the needs that you have in developed countries are most of the time quite different to the needs that you have in developing countries. Like the problem in, in developing countries in ophthalmology specifically is that people get blind because there's no money or there are not resources to do the procedure . Not because there are not enough ophthalmologists or there is not the technology, it's because of that first situation. If you really wanna enter heart to that market, you should probably have a solution or a product that is specifically aimed for that region. That's our case. We are building medical devices for developing countries and that's I think one of the reasons why we have been adopted so good over there. And the other thing that I would also suggest is think of the new marketing channels such as social media, as big entering platforms because in Latin America, and I think that's all over the place, a new trend that is happening, a lot of the information these people involved in the medical industry is gathering or is getting is from social media. And if you do some good marketing strategies over there, it's gonna be quite beneficial. And of course the last one, think about the medical congresses because I do believe that's a great platform where your users, the doctors are gonna be quite open-minded about listening to new technologies, like actually going directly first to a distributor and then trying to enter the market from there. I believe it's gonna be extremely hard. I do think like being able to discuss with your end customer and it identifying those key opinion leaders in Latin America is like the best opportunity you have to start selling your products over there.

Julio Martinez: 39:35

Well said . All right , Federico , how can listeners get in contact with you? Well,

Federico Acosta: 39:39

Thank you very much. So , um, we do have our website and that's well all the information about our company, like I said also on social media. But first our website is custom surgical de as in , in as in Germany de at the end custom surgical.de. And of course we have our social media channels such as uh , Instagram, where we are custom surgical as well. We are on LinkedIn as well as custom surgical and on Facebook as well as custom surgical. You can also write us an email at , um, info at custom surgical. Do the

Julio Martinez: 40:22

Very well set . Uh , Federico , thank you for that information and it's been a great pleasure to have you here on the show today. I appreciate your sharing with us, your experiences and your outlook on Latin America and I wish you much , uh, success in intervention . Thank

Federico Acosta: 40:41

You very much, Julio. Uh , once again, congratulations for this great project. I do see a lot of , uh, companies benefiting from this , uh, endeavor you have been working on. So , uh, thank you very much and, and I wish you all the best and stay healthy on this Corona crisis.

Julio Martinez: 40:59

Absolutely. I'll bye-Bye

Federico Acosta: 41:01

Cia. Have a good one .