EPISODE 60: JONATAN PANTANOWITZ, EVP BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT AT LIVINGUARD

Episode’s transcript

Julio Martinez: 0:00

Welcome to the Latin MedTech leaders podcast. A conversation with med tech leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America. Please subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform, apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast, Amazon music is teacher tune. I heard radio Pandora or welcome to the Latin metec leaders podcast. AA conversation with leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America today, our guest is Jonathan Pantana witch. He's living towards, uh, executive vice president of business development. Jonathan has a wealth of business and leadership experience. Having spent the previous 14 years with 3m where among other roles, he was managing director for 3m in Israel. He established the first connections between 3m and the Israel innovation ecosystem and held the position of new tech scout for 3m new ventures in Israel during his tenure, he held board seats with two startup companies and was involved in several other investments on behalf of, of 3m. So Jonathan, it's great to have you here today. Welcome to the show.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 1:14

Thank you, Julio. I am really, uh, super pleased to be here. Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm really looking forward to, uh, uh, uh, to the next few, uh, minutes where we're going to discuss about, uh, Latin America. And I really want to compliment you for an amazing show that you're running. It's really, really impressive. So once again, thanks. Thanks for having me over.

Julio Martinez: 1:35

Awesome, Jonathan, thank you for the account words, what our show is shortly. Uh, uh, I'm very proud of what we're building here. We are the only outlet for, um, uh, all things related Latin America with medical technologies. So

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 1:51

Pretty amazing.

Julio Martinez: 1:52

Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. All right. So let's get started, um, with your journey to Latin America, Jonathan, how you got involved with the region on a personal and professional level.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 2:04

So, um, if it's okay with you, I'll start with a personal, I actually married, um, with, uh, my wife, uh, Miha um, was born to, uh, to native Argentinians, uh, that, uh, came to Israel and, uh, you know, grandparents from, uh, from Argentina. So, um, I can tell you, I re I, I remember coming, uh, to one of the first, uh, dinners at my, uh, wife's house and it was the time of the, of the world cup. And there was, uh, you know, some kind of game my, I don't remember if it was Argentina playing or, uh, or England was, was playing. And I was kind of saying just before we were entering, you know, I, I really like the, the, uh, the English team and she kind of told me whatever you do, don't say that for, uh, during dinner. So, um, I, um, I really, you can say I married into the Latin, uh, uh, you know, uh, passion and love for food for people. Um, and it's, uh, it's amazing.

Julio Martinez: 3:18

Excellent. I'm really happy to hear that.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 3:20

Thank you. On a professional note, um, um, you know, definitely when I was, uh, in 3m, I got exposed to, um, a lot of our activities in, in Latin, in Latin America. Unfortunately, I was not able to work directly, uh, in Latin America, but the exposure just to the leadership that came out of Latin America and the diversity, um, you know, I always remember, I remember this very well that on my first visit to 3m headquarters in St. Paul, you know, I was, you come to this huge headquarters. I felt a little lost. I, you know, I didn't know, uh, um, where I was going. And one of these guys, he was head of the business in Latin America, kind of saw me in the international, uh, um, scene. And he took me under his wing. He said, Hey, Jonathan, come for lunch. And immediately we were able to, we were able to connect. And he was a very, very senior guy, but he was completely to earth. So for me coming from, from my culture, uh, it's really, it's really easy for me. And it's comfortable to me to be able to connect on a very personal level on a very warm level, uh, with the cultures, the different cultures from, uh, uh, from Latin America. I was also always impressed by, um, the hunger for innovation, um, and, uh, for technology and, and the fact that, um, it's, uh, while it many times it's categorized, it's Latin America, it's really V era of colors. It's, it's, you know, you, you get, you get everything. And, um, you know, the, the, the people that I have I have met and the leadership I have met has always been super sharp, but super warm as human beings. And to me, that makes a huge difference.

Julio Martinez: 5:18

Hmm. Fantastic. I'm really happy to hear that. That was good. So, um, what trends do you see happening right now in Latin America that are, uh, making Latin America a great place to do business at Jonathan?

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 5:31

Um, so I think the, the first things that, uh, that I mentioned is, uh, hunger for technology. I think, uh, I think hunger for technology is, um, is really, um, growing and we're seeing a lot of interest in, uh, new technologies, I think, generally speaking, but definitely also in, in healthcare and the need to bring in, uh, more technologies. I think we're seeing, um, some shifts in regulatory as well. When we see, um, maybe traditionally it was mostly, uh, the, you know, reliant on adopting either us or European, uh, regulations, but now really establishing own sets of, uh, regulatory requirements, definitely in some of the, uh, larger and more advanced countries. So this as a company that is looking, uh, to, you know, to be successful in Latin America, uh, really is a, is a flag for us to understand this and be prepared for this in terms of understanding the regulatory, uh, landscape. So it's not enough only to get your us re uh, kind of ticked off or your European regulatory ticked off. You really need to understand the local landscape. So I think that's another, uh, another big change. Um, I think as, as, as it's happening globally, and especially after the pandemic, the need, uh, for having, uh, tick technologies that are also disruptive on the one hand, but preventative in the nature for, you know, for healthcare, for preventative healthcare, uh, like our technology that is all about disinfection of materials, of fabrics, of different substrates. I think this is, uh, another change, uh, that we are seeing. And, um, this is continuing to happen in what is, I think, uh, you know, a trait of Latin America, which is a very, very competitive, uh, environment. Um, it really requires you to, you know, to be, to be on your toes and understand that, um, each country has a little bit of different, uh, different color has different needs. And I'd say, um, um, you know, as a, as a word of caution, uh, I say this to anyone listening, but I say it, first of all to myself is that there really needs to be a fundamental decision to go into Latin America because you either go all in, um, you know, or, or leave it for when you are ready to go all in. And I think, uh, I, I think we, you know, we might have, um, um, you know, double footed ourselves, um, you know, in, in the beginning, but I think now we're getting ready and we are understanding you really need to respect Latin America as, as a market in order to be successful there. If, if there's one thing I learned, it's, it's that?

Julio Martinez: 8:30

Mm, great answer. Yeah, yeah. You, you answered my sec, my, my next question, which was gonna be, how do you see Latin America as a land of opportunity to do business? So in essence, you pretty much summarized everything as yes, it's a, is a line of opportunity if you're willing to take it seriously.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 8:48

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, um, and, and we, and we understand this and, um, I think maybe we did not understand this well enough in the beginning. I'm, I'm, um, I'm honest enough to, uh, to say that. And I think, uh, you know, a true leader is one that can recognize, uh, what is also done wrong and correct, and, and correct course, uh, as needed. And that's what we're doing now in regards to Latin America. And that's also one of the reasons why I've been so excited to, to come on your show.

Julio Martinez: 9:22

Excellent. Excellent. All right, Jonathan, let's talk a little bit about your technology. What is it that makes your product so special? And then we, uh, move on to individual countries, your experience, or your plans in Columbia, Brazil, Chile, et cetera.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 9:34

Sure. So living art has, um, uh, has been a technology in development for, uh, over 10 years, uh, by the founder, uh, Sanji Swami, who came from the textile, uh, industry and, um, in the textile industry, there's been for many years, um, uh, several technologies around, uh, um, uh, anti odor, uh, that embed, uh, different types of chemicals in the, in the technology to, um, uh, fight bacteria. So this is being perfected, uh, with, uh, multiple patterns and, and hundreds and hundreds of, of, uh, of different trials, on different stuff, up rates and validated by multiple, uh, research, uh, institutes and universities. And, um, um, we really were presented with, uh, obviously a huge challenge, but also huge opportunity, uh, with the, the pandemic and with a very, very small team. We were able to, uh, um, um, to rally around the opportunity and really, uh, deliver in a big way. So I was, uh, privileged to be together with the founder and a, and, uh, a few other people at the forefront of this opportunity and to steer living guard into capturing this opportunity, uh, around, you know, building the team, building our, and, uh, building the business in the beginning, definitely around our face mask business, which was, uh, you know, the, definitely the product of, uh, 2020 for, for many people. And to do it in a way, which is, um, gives the highest level of protection, highest level of, uh, of, uh, performance comfort. And I, uh, not less important in a very sustainable way. So our masks are, have been, you know, are reusable. You can use them for over six months with washing them occasionally. And, um, our masks have reduced the need for 6 billion throwaway masks, and we all know, uh, the big damage that, um, uh, the throwaway mask, the polypro and the plastic mask have been doing to the environment, to our oceans. Um, and I'm sure even when you walk, uh, the streets, uh, wherever you are in Latin America, if it's in Rio or if it's in, uh, uh, you know, uh, Santiago or, or somewhere else, you're seeing a lot of the single throw away masks, uh, thrown, thrown away on, on, uh, on the floor. And it's, and it's really, um, you know, a cause of, uh, despair. Um, we've also been very, very active on a social perspective. We've recently donated 200,000 masks in India, uh, to help with a dire situation. Uh, there we've been donating masks in, in, in other causes as well. And, um, uh, we are, um, we're really looking forward now to, to, to bring, uh, the next, uh, line of products that we're working on. So it's starting from, uh, work wear clothing, uh, which is both antiviral and antimicrobial and, uh, uh, professional wear for doctors and hospitals. And we're, uh, starting, um, probably in the very near future we've we've, um, understood how to get our technology used in plastics and different types of plastics. And we're getting this also to get tested on some catheters, for example. So, um, catheter born, um, uh, uh, infections are one of the main cause of, of urinary infections or infections born at the hospital when a patient comes in. And if we will be able to help reduce that, um, it's really going to help a lot of people in a lot of patients. So really focusing on the preventative side of, of, uh, of, uh, medicine and healthcare, um, from a very unique aspect with, um, a company that, uh, has spent a lot of time. We have about 10 PhDs in the company focusing on, on, on technology in R and D. We have a fantastic lab here, uh, in Switzerland, and we're building a, a larger one because we really believe that, um, the core is coming with the right technology and the future technology. And, you know, soon we'll be coming out with, with even, uh, bio side free technology to, to work on, on textiles. Um, we've worked for five years with, uh, us EPA and very recently have received, uh, the first EPA approved, uh, self disinfection, uh, approval for a textile. So now that's gaining a lot of interest in the us and for many companies and healthcare, healthcare companies and the government and so on. So we are really, uh, looking forward to, you know, take everything that we've achieved and now, uh, bring it in an organized way into Latin America.

Julio Martinez: 14:43

What makes your company different from the competition? Is there any, anybody else in this space trying to do something similar?

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 14:51

I think there are quite a lot of companies, um, in this space. Some of them are, um, have been around, uh, longer or as long as, uh, as we have, uh, some even more, um, I think in the last year, in the pandemic year, we've seen a lot of companies hop on the boat and, and, um, and try to do it. Um, I think where we differ is really in, um, in a couple of areas. It's definitely, first of all, the technology we have, I believe what is the most cutting edge technology, and we're keeping the investment on technology very, very high. Um, our focus on bringing in, um, safety, uh, in our products and doing multiple testing, uh, both internally and externally, uh, so to bring the safest, uh, product, uh, uh, to our customers. And lastly, I'd say, um, is the sustain sustainability angle. So both, both in the products themselves, but also in the technologies that they, um, uh, enable our customers to be more sustainable in their operations. So I'd say those are the biggest differentiations from a company perspective towards other companies in this, uh, in this field. Uh, you know, it's definitely getting a little more crowded, uh, nowadays. And, uh, I mentioned earlier about the donations, I think at the end, uh, today, when you choose on which company to partner with, or to work with, you really want to look to at a company that in addition to technology also has a heart.

Julio Martinez: 16:30

Yes. Agree.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 16:31

And I definitely think that, that we have have a heart and you see that in, you know, the way that people are sorting their hearts in, into, into the work with the living art, uh, and also our actions, uh, speak louder than worlds, uh, in terms of the way we're, uh, helping, uh, areas with donations and working with, uh, uh, with, uh, these types of organizations to help people

Julio Martinez: 16:57

In. Yes. And it's a beautiful way to market a product doing good, because people start adopting the product for free. I mean, they enjoy the benefits and for a great cause. And, and, and the words start to spread out about the, the, uh, the technology.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 17:15

Absolutely. It's, um, it's a good way. Um, you know, I think on both of these, uh, I definitely think it's a fantastic trend. Um, but I think, um, like we've seen also in the area of sustainability and also as we've seen in the area of social responsibility, um, I think any action is, is good action, and it's better than having none, but I think we also see a lot of, um, people doing some manipulations around this and, uh, um, you know, using name dropping and just building a nice sustainability site. It's really, um, uh, you know, I, for me, it's something that I'm personally very, very passionate about. I, I held, uh, a global, uh, uh, I had a area, a leadership position in 3m around sustainability. I was able to get really close to this and,

Julio Martinez: 18:14

Oh, did you really? Oh, okay.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 18:16

Yes. And I, and I'm using these learnings now and, uh, you know, I've become very close and passionate about this. And I think, um, um, we all, as consumers, as business people, uh, need to be, be really critical when we look at these types of, uh, initiatives, are they genuine? Uh, you know? Yeah. Or are they, uh, just a nice, uh, you know, makeup? Yeah. Uh, so I'm definitely, uh, pushing that, uh, for living art. We, we do it, we do it the genuine way. And I'm happy to say that up until now. We've been in able to do that

Julio Martinez: 18:50

Yeah. With a, with a heart, as you said. Yeah. I like that. And, and, and also a quick side comment, this issue of the, the pollution, the trash that we're generating. I think the, the remedy is worse than the problem. I mean, just by looking at the sustainability sustainability aspect of it is, is, is in itself a huge repercussion of the, um, actions that we've taken as, as, as society to stop the virus from spreading, not to mention alcoholism, poverty. Sure. Bio, domestic violence, all that stuff, uh, elective procedures that never happen. People die. I mean, it is just overwhelming. So anyway,

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 19:37

You know, just, just to, to finalize on the sustainability point, I, um, you know, I realized, uh, in the beginning of the pandemic, you know, in the beginning of the pandemic, it was where anything you can to cover your, your, your mouth and face. Yeah. Um, and if, you know, the best availability was a reusable mask, that's fine. It was, you know, safety for the masses. I'm talking now to, you know, to customers and to partners. And we are seeing, you know, the trend for face masks, for example, go down and go back to do, but funnily enough, um, people are actually liking, starting, especially in the Western world. And I don't know, I, I know less about what's happening in, in Latin America. People are definitely more used to wearing face masks and they like the fact that they also not only they didn't get COVID, they also didn't get the, a flu.

Julio Martinez: 20:33

Hmm. That's true. That's a great point.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 20:35

And they were less, uh, sick and Hey, so if I need to go on a bus ride, or if I need to go on a train ride, you know, I'll put on a face mask. And now that the hysteria is a little down and the anxiety is a little down, people can add some additional, uh, thought process to their choice of product of mask. So how can I choose a product where I'm a little more responsible to the environment as well? So choosing, you know, I wanna be safe, but choosing also something that can protect the environment. And I think it's up to, you know, the business leaders, the thought leaders, um, uh, you know, the celebrities to sh to show the way in that regard the politicians, you know, the, the, the ones that set the, uh, the trends make that decisions because people will follow.

Julio Martinez: 21:29

Yeah. And, and also something that looks good that matches your clothes that matches your style, your personal style and something that incorporates technology. Right. So

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 21:40

I'll tell you a little story about, uh, something that, that looks good. Um, I was, um, pushing really hard, uh, that we launch, uh, spring, summer, uh, face mask collection in kind of pastel colors.

Julio Martinez: 21:57

Okay.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 21:58

And, you know, you always have the skeptics that say, uh, first of all, you had supply chain say, oh, we'll have more SKUs. Why do we need more SKUs? We don't need, yeah. Um, why do we need so many products who's gonna want, and we launched it last week and it's been a hit because people, oh, people

Julio Martinez: 22:15

Beat everybody too.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 22:17

So it's, uh, you know, in, in one week it's become, uh, you know, 20, 20 over 20% of our sales

Julio Martinez: 22:24

In one week.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 22:26

And because, you know, people again, after this, the first few months of the anxiety, people say, okay, this is part of my life now. Yeah,

Julio Martinez: 22:36

Exactly.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 22:36

I wear sunglasses. So why don't I wear something nice? Why don't I, uh, especially, you know, if you're a little bit fashion oriented, I, you know, I match it to my, to the shirt or I match it to my dress if you, if you're a lady or, or whatever. So I think, I really think, uh, this market is gonna go to, to that direction. And we are definitely, uh, we're going in both directions. So we're going also into the fun and fashion, but our first and foremost is going into the, uh, really more heavily, uh, regulated. So we're getting ready to have FFP two certification. So the highest level of certification we are ready today have a, we have our, our medical type one mask. And now we, we are going to be launching medical type two R mask, uh, which is good for healthcare workers, for hospitals, for clinics and so on. Uh, but Hey, a doctor wants to look good as well. The nurse wants to look good as well. Don't you think?

Julio Martinez: 23:35

Agree. Totally agree. Uh, before we move on, we're almost 20 something minutes. We haven't talked about the countries in Latin America yet, but, uh, but, uh, I, I, I, I joke that, uh, before the pandemic, if you get into a bank with a face Mac, you call the police. Now it's become a symbol status. You have a, a face Mac in the bank.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 23:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Julio Martinez: 23:58

Things have changed dramatically. I mean, our perception of how we behave. And anyway, uh, Jonathan, let's move on. Let's talk about Latin America specifically about your plans. Uh, what do you have, um, in, in, in your plans for the region, what countries are you targeting? And, and this are there please.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 24:16

So we're, um, our first priorities are, um, Brazil, Mexico, um, Chile, Argentina, Argentina, and Columbia, um, not, you know, naturally, uh, you know, Brazil and, and Mexico due to their, uh, uh, overall size. Uh, they're super interesting for us. Uh, Chile, I think has a unique, uh, uh, kind of, uh, structure and advancement, uh, to the way they they're receptive to new technologies. Um, and, uh, and, you know, we wanted to add a couple of others. Um, we're currently engaged in a few, uh, dialogues with potential partners, uh, for all of these territories. We're also looking for ways to increase our, uh, outreach now and, uh, and engage directly with some customers and, uh, start getting our, um, uh, you know, building some preliminary kind of brand building exercises. Uh, so this is happening for, for multiple territories. Some, some dialogues are more advanced, uh, than others. Um, we haven't committed anything yet in any of these territories. We're, um, I think, like I mentioned in the beginning, um, we really wanted to try and do things quickly, uh, a year ago. Uh, but we probably ended up barking up the wrong tree. And, you know, I think many of the listeners can probably identify with that. Maybe they had this experience, uh, in their penetration. And we kind of, we took a step back. We regrouped we've, we've, uh, aligned our, our structure now to better handle and, and put the right focus and attention on Latin America. So this is what we're doing now. And the second thing we're doing, I'd say the second thing we're doing in parallel is a very thorough regulatory, uh, assessment of the situation for technologies like ours, uh, in these company, in these countries that I, uh, that I mentioned. So we're understanding what is the kind of status quo and based on that, we'll be able to analyze, because what looks like, uh, possible is that, uh, in some of the countries, at least, uh, will be entering a bit of, um, almost embryonic of kind of white space. And we can, uh, with the right partner, we can probably influence, um, you know, the regulatory space in, in such that it will, um, uh, start looking at preventative, uh, hygiene, uh, disinfecting technologies, um, with the right kind of, uh, uh, mindset. So that is what is going on. Uh, at the moment, we're also looking for opportunities, uh, to maybe do some good, uh, in the process in, in order to help, uh, Brenda, our bra. And, you know, like I mentioned, the donation that we did in, in, uh, in India, we are happy to look at opportunities to do that as well in, in Latin America, because we think, um, like I said, because we're coming and we, we, we mean business and we are serious about Latin America. So I think we need to show that we're, you know, we're not only after our own business, we really care for the, um, you know, for the environment we care for the, um, for the people, um, in this region. Uh, so we're looking at all these three aspects at the moment,

Julio Martinez: 27:59

And I applaud your initiative to tackle the Latin American market as separate set of countries. That's a fragmented market is not a unified is, is not a one thing fits all right. One size fits all. It is a very fragmented is actually one of the, the challenging, uh, aspects of Latin America is 30 something countries, 600 on something million people. I mean, it's a huge market, but it's very fragmented. You have to take country by country and you're doing the right thing. In my opinion, you are targeting the main countries in the region and, and, and separating your strategy in each one with separate partners and, and, and understanding the regulatory, uh, pathway to get your products approved. And, and, and your market plan for each country has to be different. Yeah. Different healthcare systems, different needs, different social dynamics, even though we all speak Spanish in Latin America, uh, it is not the same, you know, that, I mean, you've travel. I mean, Argentina is all the same as Mexican cool. Totally different. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, um, have you visited other countries beyond Argentina or during,

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 29:15

Um, uh, no, I have, I have not. I've, I've actually not visited Argentina. I, I, the story about the, the parents is, did not have in Argentina, but I have not visited the, uh, Latin America yet. It's, um, it's, um, it's, uh, it's a hole in my, uh, in my, uh, international, uh, travel, uh, um, education. All right. And, um, you know, it's, it's definitely an area where, um, where, where I, I, I I'd, I'd like to go, you know, I have, uh, I was speaking to my wife, um, over, uh, over the weekend. Um, and, um, there's a dream. I have my, uh, retirement and I have, I had a friend, uh, that, um, that worked with me and when he retired, he took one of these, um, land rovers, and really fixed them up into a kind of, um, sleeper and so on.

Julio Martinez: 30:15

I've seen that a lot.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 30:16

And he, you know, he put it from Europe on a, on a ferry, traveled to Latin kind and drove all through Latin America with, um, um, with the land Rover. So I'm definitely planning to come before. Uh, I retire, uh, cause, uh, like I said, we mean business about Latin America. So once it's gonna be a little more easier to travel with, uh, Corona and COVID test and so on, uh, we, uh, we look forward to do, you know, do a, a round there and meet, uh, meet some of our potential partners there. And, uh, you know, like I, like I opened when you asked me about, you know, my personal experience and, um, you know, for me, um, I'm, I'm, I'm a old timer. Uh, and, uh, and for me still, you know, per there's, nothing can be the personal touch I've been, uh, totally

Julio Martinez: 31:05

Agree.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 31:05

Yes, I've been, I've been suffering from zoom Otis or whatever you can call it. And

Julio Martinez: 31:11

So fatigue as well,

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 31:13

Zoom fatigue. So I really need to meet some people. I really need to shake some hands, shake some hands. I really need to get some hugs. Um, uh, when doing some business, looking forward to doing that in Latin America, that's definitely the place to, um, where that is. So is gonna be so, so important.

Julio Martinez: 31:30

Actually, you are bringing up a very, very good point. That's one of the things that make Latin America different from other regions. It's the personal touch. People wanna do business with you if they like you as a person. So they invite you to their house. I mean, the first time they meet you, they invite you Yu Casa,

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 31:50

Casa

Julio Martinez: 31:54

Yesss, and you have to have tequilas with them, even if you don't like tequila. Okay. It's part of the game. It is, is you have to force yourself to have tequila pretend that you are having a tequila. Cause that's the way it is. That's the way they get to like you.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 32:09

Well, I think the good, the good thing in, in Latin America that you you'll always, you'll always have some food first with the tequila, so you don't need to be get, you know, too worried of just having alcohol on an empty stomach. So if it comes with some yeah. You know, a good piece of good

Julio Martinez: 32:26

Tacos, a good pizza in Columbia. Yes. Yes. That's very true. Anyway, Jonathan, so we're close to the end of the show, but let's, let's talk a little bit more about countries. Um, have you found any, any particular difference between Mexico or Brazil or Columbia, Chile, these countries you're targeting in terms of how these shooters work, uh, the regulatory requirements, what are the challenges that you've seen in, in this journey that you're starting? Yeah,

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 32:54

I, I can say, um, one of the things that we've, um, we've seen, uh, specifically about Mexico Brazil is, um, the very strong need to be able to have a dialogue also with the government entities. It's not enough, uh, to be connected, um, you know, fit partner or with a distributor or with the agent. And so on either your partner needs to have the ability to have a professional dialogue with, uh, the government entities, or you need to be able to, to, to do that in, in a separate way. So it's, um, we've learned and we are learning more, uh, that, that it's gonna be, um, a very, very crucial element of our, uh, penetration strategy. I think in that regard, again, maybe it's early, early days to say, I think maybe in Chile, um, there will be a little more receptiveness for, for new technologies, for trials to doing something maybe on a smaller scale, but faster. Um, so these are some of the things we're, we're, uh, uh, we're learning again. I think there's, you know, the it's, it's not all good obviously. And, um, we know that in, in, in some of these countries, you also need to pay attention you to doing the right thing, uh, to, uh, you know, corruption or, or, and things like that. So we we're playing, you know, we, we, that's why we kind of taking it step by step. We, we don't wanna do anything, uh, um, uh, stupid. Um, and, uh, but I think, um, with the right, uh, partner with an established partner, with an experienced partner, um, we will be able to, you know, to manage, uh, the complexities, uh, that zone, these countries, uh, um, present.

Julio Martinez: 35:01

Yeah, agree. And so I will add that, um, your product lends itself to mouse marketing, and whether you do it or the shooter, that's another story, but, um, at least in Columbia, which is the country that I, where we do most of our work, you, I know the regulatory pathway really well, allow us not allowed class one product can be mass marketed directly to the consumer directly to the end user in buyer. So without, without permission from the regulatory agency for class two, a to B and class three, yes, you can also do direct to consumer marketing, but you have to get permission of the, the ads and everything, the pieces that you're gonna, um, place on social media, et cetera. But, um, for class one products, you know, very low risk like yours. Yeah. You can set up very easily in a week. You can set up a, a very effective social media, Facebook, Instagram campaign to bring potential users to the funnel, to the website, to a landing page, and then the distributor can fulfill the demand.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 36:15

Yeah. So, and I think you, you mentioned Columbia it's think, uh, Columbia was one of the countries that, uh, stood out to me looking at countries that are putting sustainability and, uh, you know, environment and, uh, protecting wildlife and, and, you know, the nature, um, in the very forefront of, of what the country is doing.

Julio Martinez: 36:38

Yes, exactly. And the reason for that, well, that's, that's the reason that I see there may be some other good reasons. Um, but, uh, one of the reasons, one of the, the, the trends happening in Latin America is that the O E C D is having a stronger influence in the region. Okay. So their first country to, to obtain a CD membership to gain membership was, uh, Chile, um, years ago. I mean, Chile is a very forward looking country in Latin, Latin America. Many people say that Chile is in a third world. Country is a second world country. And there's a historical reason behind that in the, the Pinoche government. Sure. They send everybody to study in

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 37:26

Chicago from a GDP per capital. Isn't Chile. Uh, yes.

Julio Martinez: 37:30

One of the highest ones. Yes, exactly. And also is the first country, Latin America in it's, uh, human development index, which is in international, uh, rating that, yeah. I just wrote an article about Chile for my column of me device online. So I, everything is fresh in my head is a very advanced country in many ways. And a lot of countries in Latin America, specifically Columbia in 1991, uh, copy or got inspired, okay. By the Chilean healthcare system, I a model to, to, to set the regulation of what's now the Columbia healthcare system, which is a top performing healthcare system in Latin America. So what I was gonna say is that the O E C D now includes Chile, Columbia, Mexico, Costa Rica just joined the ECD last week, two weeks ago, by the way. Wow. So all these countries are adopting international guidelines, international standards, how to do things, right? So sustainability is one of those things, you know, and other social and political course, of course, and technology science, innovation aspects. Uh, so they're adopting best practices around the world by joining the whiskey, which is, to me, I think this is a historical moment in, in the history of Latin America, the Pacific, which is the club of, or the association of O E C D countries in Latin America, is, is putting together a nice block trade block that will make it easier for companies like yours to, to, to enter the region.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 39:07

That's amazing. So it's, it's, it's amazing development. It's really, um, you know, I, I really think great things are, are happening. I mean, this, this, this, this market, I think can really, um, rise above, uh, you know, other markets, um, in the, in the next few years with all these things are happening. It's really, really fascinating.

Julio Martinez: 39:31

Excellent. All right, Jonathan. So we are about to end the show. The last question that I usually ask my guests is what would you say to the CEO of a medical device company that is just starting to look at Latin America, so place to do trials or to do business commercializing technology? What would be your words of wisdom to him or her?

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 39:51

I, I would say, and, and I say this as, um, someone that has maybe learned this the hard way, I would say, um, think about it, take a decision. And if you've decided to go for it, go all in or, or don't go in at all. Hmm

Julio Martinez: 40:12

Hmm. Yeah. Great advice. I like it. All right, Jonathan, thank you so much for being a guest in our a show. I look forward.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 40:18

Thank you so much, being a pleasure.

Julio Martinez: 40:20

Awesome.

Jonatan Pantanowitz: 40:21

Thank you. Bye.