EPISODE 62: CHARLIE WEBB, FOUNDER & PRESIDENT AT VAN DER STAHL SCIENTIFIC, INC

Episode’s transcript

Julio Martinez: 0:00

Welcome to the Latin MedTech Leaders podcast, a conversation with MedTech leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America. Please subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast. Amazon Music is teacher Tune in iHeart Radio, Pandora or these Today our guest is Charlie Webb . Charlie is a six Sigma master, black belt, patented inventor and medical device packaging. Girl, I didn't know there was such a thing, <laugh> Charlie, but Charlie is the founder and president of Wander Style Scientific and Medical Device Packaging and testing machine provider. Charlie has been in sterile device packaging for 25, 26 years and has been involved in numerous FDA and ISO audits , uh, as a regulatory advisor. So, Charlie is great to have you here in the show. Welcome.

Charlie Webb: 0:57

Thank you so much for having me. It's a great honor to be here.

Julio Martinez: 1:00

Awesome, Charlie. So let's start talking about your involvement with Latin America. Charlie, how is it that you got connected with the region from a personal professional level?

Charlie Webb: 1:10

Well, you know, like a lot of you as companies , um, we developed a relationship , uh, with Mexico. Um , primarily, you know, there's an advantage right when you're next door neighbors , um, to enter into Latin America , um, because there's a certain amount of crossover in terms of culture. Um, the cultural differences between ironically, Brazil , um, and Mexico are quite different. And so , uh, I guess , um, the Mexican Americans are used to us. We're used to them, and we have , um, a very good relationship. And because of the proximity for logistic reasons and so forth , um, you can imagine, you know, Mexico is , um, is a great , uh, choice for us for medical device manufacturing. Um, but you know, I've , we've, we've worked , uh, with several , um, countries , uh, in Latin America , uh, Chile, Argentina , uh, um, and, you know, we, we've struggled along with them as they are sort of reaching out to offer products to the US and also looking at being sort of a partner , um, with the US in terms of developing medical devices. You know, that I think one of the biggest challenges for Latin American countries that are wishing to work in the States is there is kind of a disconnect between regulatory requirements and trying to bridge that gap has become a challenge for these companies. Um, the FDA has , uh, mandates on how medical devices must be made, obviously that are entering into the US airspace, we'll call it. And , um, but with iso , uh, the international standard , um, that obviously , uh, when they can conform to iso, it makes that bridge into the US market , uh, better. But principally, you know, we are helping a lot of Latin American , uh, uh, companies are develop a , a sterile packaging process that's commensurate to the high levels. And we have a process, the ISO , uh, 11 6 0 7 , and that's the requirement for getting a sterile device , um, into the hospitals and clinics. And so that process has become much more robust this year , um, as of last year actually. And so now a lot of , um, uh, countries are struggling to get on board and to become ISO certified . And so we help to kind of bridge the gap to say, Hey, it has to be done this way. And , uh, there can be challenging because obviously there's cultural and management style difference that we have to , um, address.

Julio Martinez: 3:38

Yes. Good , Charlie. So let's talk about some trends that you are seeing in Latin America, political, economic , uh, disease trends that are relevant to our discussion today.

Charlie Webb: 3:49

Well, you know, the , um, uh, in fact, I was just researching this morning , um, you know, looks in, in Latin America , um, there's a huge increase in , uh, sort of non-infectious diseases that are affecting , uh, Latin American cancer, cardiovascular disease. And , um, these are gonna represent somewhere in the order of 80% of the mortality. Um, so obviously getting into preventative ME medicine and devices that help prolong life. Um, for instance, arterial stents in the US have been a game changer , um, for people who have had , uh, blocked arteries, say 50 years ago. Um, the diagnosis wasn't very well, but now we can get in and we can open up arteries and we can shore 'em up with , uh, arterial stents. And it's been , uh, a life change because a lot of , um, diets now are , uh, a changing worldwide , um, changing , uh, outcomes in terms of cancers. Um, and so now , uh, I guess a lot of other countries that historically weren't faced with , um, uh, obesity and those sort of issues that sort of the headwater to cancer and cardiovascular disease are now , uh, struggling to get up to pace in terms of treatment options. Um, you know, now that McDonald's are in every corner worldwide , you know , you can grab a a bag of french fries everywhere. I mean, you even see it . I've spent the last 30 years traveling to , uh, 20, yeah, about 30 years now traveling to Japan. I've spent a great deal of time in Japan, and you can see that the , uh, the people are getting taller there , um, taller ,

Julio Martinez: 5:30

Yeah .

Charlie Webb: 5:30

Wow . I remember when I used to to go, there were , um, the Japanese were famously shorter than people, but because of the change in diet , um, you, you're starting to see even countries who hold very closely to a cultural diet. Um, and now we're adopting , uh, a western , uh, some might even call an American , uh, palate diet . And as a result of that , uh, those are growing . So Latin America , uh, is now faced with a similar , uh, problem where , um, we, we have to look at , uh, you know, how we can develop devices , uh, for Latin America, as well as what are the export, you know, options . So those are one of the trends that we see , um, that's happening in Latin America, in the United States. Um , the trends, as I mentioned before, you know, we're starting to get more robust regulatory requirements to get a device in. So a lot of , uh, countries wishing to enter into the United States are having to meet these robust , um, regulatory hurdles. So it really pays. In fact, you know, it , it's, it's interesting that in the United States, we are in a little bit of a , um, human resource drought, you might say, on the engineering side. We, you could go into any clean room in North America or any medical device , um, company in the United States and Canada, and it's very likely there'll be several Indian nationals that are working in the engineer team. So what the Indians, on a personal level understood, was that science engineering , uh, mathematics has become an area of study that has helped them. And you can see the similar trend in Latin America where, you know, no longer can Mexico, for instance, be the low dollar , um, place to come and get something made. I mean, at one point, you cap out in terms of being a contractor of other people's intellectual property. So the goal and the hope for Mexico and Latin America as a whole is to be able to develop that intellectual resource where they're developing their own technology and not just brokering or assembling in most cases. Um, you know, you ask about our political climate, it's hard not to look into the new , our border crisis, right? So, you know what our border crisis is telling the, the world, and this is something that Latin America really needs to look at. I mean, why is there such a movement , um, from humanoids from south to north? And the answer is pretty clear. It's lifestyle, right? We all want a better lifestyle. But the interesting part, I, I'm on a camp where several other people are on the same camp, is our goal isn't to , to close the walls on Mexico. Um, we do have a problem with the Mexican border where we cannot just bring everyone in the world because , uh, it collapses an economy, right? So that's an unfair way to enter into a country. No one is arguing that. But what it's telling us is that a better way for Latin America, certainly Mexico, and this analog, would be to develop a China model, an India model, where they first become the contract packages for US products , uh, not medicine, but US products in general. Um , no matter how you wanna spend it politically, there's a low cost labor pool south of our border. That's why we export , um, assembly. Uh, and logistically it's so much better. It , it's so surprising to me, why are we shipping containers from China when we have a economic , uh, di economy that would allow us to be able to do this in Mexico and South America? So , uh, but I think a lot of it, there's a pushback I think in, in Latin America where it's like, Hey, we, we've got things to sell as well. We have the intellectual resources to make our own product. And , uh, I think we're, we're almost in a little bit of a, a stalemate right now in the case of Mexican. They've , um, although , uh, the Mexican , um, uh, connection with the United States, I think is becoming much stronger. But here's how the evolution works. You , you're roughly in my age category there. So we all remember that when we get things from Japan , uh, as a child , uh, in the sixties, Japanese products were just of very low quality. It's hard for us to imagine a low quality Japanese product. When you look at reliability indexes of a Toyota, some of the highest quality , some of the , um, they're using Kaizen and Six Sigma , um, manufacturing me methods and their , um, brokering, exploiting, if you like, their cultural , um, makeup to be able to make incredible , uh, products. So what we see , and now we see it in China, and , and Japan's quite worried because when we think of Ja uh , China over the last 10 years, we don't think of stellar beautifully built. We're thinking lowest bidder , you know, the low fruit stuff. So that's where , um, we can see these paradigms that can change what I believe is gonna happen. At one point, Mexico, which has been the, the low dollar provider of, of labor, is going to get those intellectual resources sort of developed. And what's gonna happen is they're gonna be known for better products. There's a long way to go , for sure, but I think that is the trend that India is in a similar model, and we're, you know, approaching a 10, you know, billion something , uh, world population right now. So, you know, it's surprising that , um, we're there, you know, again, looking at some of the , the , uh, international monetary fund says that , uh, you know, the world economy grew by 5.2% in 2021 emerging countries , uh, or somewhere in the order of , um, 6%. And Latin America is at 3.6. So Latin America has some catching up to do. And there's, I mean, since colonial times for South America, there's challenges, there's even , uh, geographical challenges, there's political differences . And so it's, it's challenging for there to be this sort of , um, European Union model. It has to come ultimately, I think, and I think that's where the direction ultimately is gonna go. There has to be that sort of a collective of united countries that are going to codify these quality measures and allow only the best that Latin America has to offer to gate through a portal to the rest of the world. That's what I believe needs , needs to happen.

Julio Martinez: 12:12

Well said, Charlie. Yeah, I like those comments. The Pacific Alliance is something that , uh, is addressing that exactly what you're , um, discussing here, I think is, is the, the only initiative that really will place Latin America as a , as a world class , um, place. I mean, at least the four countries that are part of the Pacific Alliance , uh, trade block , uh, uh, a world class trade block in the world, which will make about , uh, 200 and something million people, and it will , uh, be considered about the eighth economy in the world. And just for listeners to make sure we're on the same page here, the, the Pacific Alliance is the trade block that Mexico, Columbia , Peru, and Chile have put together. And these are the only OECD countries in Latin America. And the good news is that the trade block is expanding with Panama and Costa Rica. Costa Rica just got accepted into the OECD , uh, a few weeks ago, which is great news. And, and, and , and these are countries that are aligned with international best practices, international policies, and, and , uh, they're open for business. So I think , um, yeah, well ,

Charlie Webb: 13:24

I think, you know, a lot of times, you know, Latin America is marginalized for, you know, capability. Um, I mean, when you're looking at Mexico, Columbia, Chile and Argentina represent the largest , uh, economy. They have a , um, uh, somewhere in the four order of $4.25 trillion. Um, I mean, the same thing with India. We, we sort of underestimated what India can do. And I think India 10 years from now is going to have a completely different meaning. Obviously, China is in a, in a very , uh, sort of a time of flux. Uh, so these things are having much quickly than they used to. These were usually on 25 year , uh, sort of timelines, and they were gonna see things happen much more quickly. Um, and who gets involved? I mean, I think we saw with the EU how the shakedown went . Uh, some countries , uh, they wanted to participate, they didn't wanna participate. Some they wanted in some, they regret putting in, I mean, there was some issues in terms of Greece and so forth. So, you know, we , um, there's gonna be a shift with that alliance as well. But I , I really think in the, in the interim, the companies that are willing to start to get up to speed in terms of world processes are gonna make that transition much easier because even though there will be a requirement in South America for, for quality and , uh, there'll be a value system in all of the , uh, need to put together in order to gate these products with the quality that the world requires. Now, there are a lot of companies , um, are getting heads up on this, and it's important that they do. I mean, I would encourage any , um, medical device manufacturer in Latin America to start the process of , um, getting an FDA 1345 designation, or , um, uh, I'm sorry, an ISO 1345 designation and working towards that quality standard. Because when you, when you start working towards these quality standards and you peek into the United States, I mean, a lot of , uh, countries , um, still look at us as , uh, sort of the standard of, of care in terms of devices . Although I would argue that the EU now , um, has , uh, with the UMDR , hmm , yep , UMDR has, has driven these requirements beyond , uh, what the US is doing. And a lot of companies in the US are having the same struggle. We're struggling to become , uh, compliant to that new , uh, European standard , uh, or value system. And although we're very close , um, you can imagine on , on less developed countries working under a different model , um, have to really get up to speed quickly because the world is moving very fast. And this , again, you know, our population is exploding. We need to provide good cogent care to , uh, billions of people in order to be able to perform this on the magnitude that's needed. You know, the, the good news, the bad news about , um, what we've done is we've done an amazing job worldwide of creating a lifestyle that supports the procreation of humans. The , uh, proliferation of , uh, food stuffs . We've done an amazing job with that. But like every species of animal , um, we grow to the food supply. So the food , food supply is big, shelter is, is there. And so we continue to grow, but now we have new challenges. I mean, none of us can argue with the pandemic that we have, infectious disease issues that are gonna blossom again. We certainly have not seen the last of that. Um, I think if anything that was just a quick peek in to what could walk , could come , uh, something that's airborne, that is much more deadly , um, would devastate the world. And so we have to be positioned , uh, worldwide. We all have to be on the same page, obviously, for us to meet these challenges. And I think , um, some countries are doing a better job than others, but when we try to work , um, with some of the companies , uh, that historically in Latin America , um, it's our own on don't be this somewhat colloquial , um, they were behind in what our requirements would be, and we had to help bridge that gap. Um, but, you know, in fairness, there , at the starting gate, oftentimes, and they're one , I mean, they have, some of the products that are coming , um, uh, from Latin America are amazing devices. I mean, they're doing , um, respirators in, I believe Brazil is , uh, is huge , right ? Um, tons of, of very unique, very , uh, uh, well-built devices that would benefit the world. And they're being , uh, firewalled by the regulatory , uh, hurdles that it , to get these devices , uh, in distribution. So obviously the goal is to bridge that intellectual gap. Um, the , the ability to do quick deploy and to build these products in , uh, Latin America , um, is quite proven. Uh, I mean, if you look at consumer goods , um, even coming outta Mexico , um, you know , the US has moved several plants. Uh, Freightliner Ford has a , there so many factories that are down there. But when you look at the management core there, it's principally , uh, Americans. And so what needs to happen is that they need to take this model as the Japanese did, and ultimately the Chinese, and realize that, you know, we have to have the intellectual resources first and not go hanging fruit of how many shovel pole folds of product can you get out the door. That's not a , a strategy that grows a company, and it's certainly not a strategy that that builds a nation, for sure. Hmm .

Julio Martinez: 19:03

Well said , Charlie. Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about specifics in Latin America. What countries will you consider are the manufacturing hubs in Latin America? Um, Mexico, Costa Rica, any other country that we can talk about? Yeah , I

Charlie Webb: 19:19

Mean , Costa Rica and in Mexico is where we are seeing , um, uh, there they're probably 10 years a , uh, ahead of , um, uh, you know, Cheerla in Argentina, in , in terms of my , of what I've , uh, experienced. You know , again , a lot of it has to do with logistics. You know, proximity makes a difference. Um , and so , uh, we also have a better , uh, cultural connection. You know, if you were to take an American and a Canadian in a pub and you're drinking beer together, it'll be an hour before you realize who's Canadian and who's American. We're so close in terms of who we are. I mean, when I travel abroad, are you American or are you Canadian? I mean, we're almost a thing now. If you ask a Canadian, they'd be like, no, we're different. And you ask American, no, <laugh>. When you look at, you know, the , again, the regulatory differences for us to be able to send through their health ministry, we, we have hurdles with a com , with a country that we almost exactly share a value system with that we almost exactly exactly share television language. Everything you can imagine when there's a language difference and a stronger cultural difference, that those barriers become very , uh, real. And some of 'em , which are much more subtle is the barriers between an American company or Americans with , say, Argentina or Chile, or Brazil or Columbia versus Central America or Mexico. Mexico . We're , we're much closer , um, to understanding each other by virtue of us being closer together. So, you know , I think that that's one of the challenges as you go deeper into South America, you're losing , um, proximity and you're, you're losing some of that cultural connection that we've developed , um, by, you know, a century of our connectivity with , uh, with Mexico. Um, we also have, you know, through the MLA Dore , uh, through the , uh, um, NAFTA at one point , um, we had , uh, the ability to sort of grease the skids in terms of how we trade with Mexico. So an encouragement to work with Mexico, but there really wasn't, it wasn't politicized. It wasn't incentivized for us to work with, say, Argentina. So as a result of that, and also when you get into deeper political difference from Argentina and the United States, it becomes much more problematic. Um, those political difference have always been a struggle. And when you're struggle when you're trying to import products , um, from a , uh, country that is, is vastly different than the value system where the, the prevailing , uh, backbone political structure, it's very difficult to do that with Mexico. Um, the , uh, the political difference is mild enough, you might say, for us to be able to overcome that , uh, for us to work with 'em becomes much more challenging , uh, with Argentina, for instance. So , um, even Columbia , uh, to a certain extent. So I, you know, the , um, the , the, the real challenge , uh, again, you know, moving forward is for us to somehow bridge the cultural gap, which is, is fairly obvious that that needs to happen and to sort of mainstream , um, what it means to work with these other nations, because it, it would seem very, for the average American company, would seem quite odd to trade with Columbia, for instance , um, which would be odd for us, you know what I mean? So , um, we have a hard time, and although I wouldn't say necessarily that Americans are nationalistic , um, you know , uh, or xenophobic, but I do believe that we do have a reluctance to work with , uh, things that are foreign to us. I mean, there's, I dunno if you watch The Simpsons , um, uh, one of the episodes was, it was funny when they were selling Falafels, they had to rename them crunch patties to be more acceptable to Americans, <laugh> . So , uh, I think there's another, another one there where he was bringing home tacos to , uh, Mr. Burns, and he said, I told you, no ethnic food. You know, so it's , um, Americans are , um, not as international in many ways, despite us being somewhat advanced in a lot of ways. We tend to look inward as Americans. Um, we look at us as the gold standard when we see things that aren't the same of us. We're uncomfortable with us , uh, as you know, we're famously struggling , uh, still , uh, you know, hundreds of years into , uh, working with other , uh, nationalities and, and races. We still struggle with it. We should go on the other end of this by now, so that, that mild xenophobic vista that Americans have, it's unfortunately up to the exporter , uh, these other countries to be able to, you know, recreate a vision of normalize it, if you like. Um, when you look at , uh, uh, you know, state of California through their chamber , the states Chamber of Commerce runs , um, ads in other states to to talk about California talk , talk about it until it becomes normal to wanna visit California. And similarly, you know, we, you have to have some sort of a campaign underwritten by a nation or a group of nations be able to, I mean, if you go to a , a , the trade show, the medical device and manufacturing trade show, which we hold out , uh, here, it's coming up in , uh, August this year , um, if you, about every other Booth is another state that's encouraging California companies to move to work with them . So they're trying to , um, talk about the benefits of working with, say, Texas , uh, what are the economic benefits? What are the cultural business , uh, benefits, what are the lifestyle benefits for your employees? What is the intellectual resources that you could expect to have if you were to work with that? So, other countries obviously have been doing this for some time. Uh, there's a , uh, international pavilion typically at these , um, trade shows, and you can visit and talk to them. Typically, those are to have the discussion about exporting products or working with them in some way. So it's nothing new. This has been going on 20, 30 years that I've observed. Um, but I think there needs to be a bigger push through other media channels, not just the B2B industrial side. Um, we almost have to normalize these relationships , um, to the rank and file , uh, to the average Joe on the street, if you like. We all need to understand that, you know , uh, I mean we , uh, uh, there was a survey about 10 years ago, and they said that the average , um, high school , uh, graduate couldn't identify in America, couldn't identify Europe on a world map, what <laugh> . So , you know , we're very different than , um, and, you know, I don't know if that's a testament to poor education or again, if it's that just sort of lack of interest on things outside of your zone of interest. So, you know, we have to, it is up to, again, these countries , um, to be able to, or in Latin America as a whole, to be able to normalize , um, to be able to broadcast the story, understand our culture. We wanna work with people that we know. I mean, when we're dealing with, I I, I work with a group of people. I mean, most of us are on LinkedIn now, right? If you're going to LinkedIn and you develop connections, that is a place, it's the Facebook of Commerce. It's a place for us to develop a relationship that we can parlay that relationship. After we understand that person, what they offer, we can now parlay that relationship into a business relationship. So LinkedIn has been a very, very important to that. So I think we should all take a page out of LinkedIn's story and say that, well, if the , if the flow of commerce means let's first develop a relationship that we feel comfortable with, and then let's take that relationship once we understand who you are and what you do and what your value system is. And then let's talk about business. So that I think, is the duty of Latin America moving forward, is understand us as a culture of people, our capabilities , um, what our goal is, what our value structure looks like, what our infrastructure looks like, and then let's get busy and do business together. So I think that's gonna be really the challenge moving forward. Maybe not so much of a challenge. It's certainly the duty moving forward, I believe, of Latin America in order to really be the president of the World War Market. That's certainly Latin America hopes to gain.

Julio Martinez: 27:59

Agree, Charlie? Yes, yes. Um, you are right on point in the case of Columbia specifically, that is of course, the country that I follow the most. Uh , that's where I focus most of my efforts, and that's where I'm from. I see the Colombian government pushing a lot on what they call a newer sharing strategy, trying to bring, you know, during the Trump government , uh, the issue with China became a very hot topic, and a lot of companies were reevaluating their China strategy , uh, manufacturing strategy. So they were trying to, the common government was trying to position the country as a, as a great substitute to, to , uh, um, to China. So they have this strategy called neo sharing strategy, and they started doing ads and, and , and meetings all over the United States trying to bring companies back to Latin America, to Columbia . And , uh, because at the, at the, at the beginning of nafta, there was a big push to do manufacturing in Mexico, and then China came along and , uh, people started going to China. And now we have this nearshoring <laugh> , uh, uh, um, initiative , uh, coming in in that , in America. The other thing is that , um, For Latin Americans, Mexico is part of the region, is part of Latin America. It's actually , uh, when you go to school in Latin America, I , I was taught in high school in Columbia that Mexico was, central America was part of us, but in the us Mexico is North America. Yeah . It has a totally different connotation, <laugh> . So it's like a , a like a , like a North American fellow country, even though they speak a different language, but they're North America and we share so many things in common. Um, um, I mean from the , from the US standpoint, yeah, Mexico used to be , um, used to own California. They used Nevada, the , all this . So Mexico is kind of part of the American history. Um, so it's probably easier to, to relate as an American relate to Mexico rather than to Columbia

Charlie Webb: 30:12

Lot . A lot of , um, Mexicans , um, where, when California was part of Mexico, they still refer , refer to it almost jokingly. Yes . Alta California.

Julio Martinez: 30:21

Yes. Agreed . Yes. <laugh> .

Charlie Webb: 30:23

So as , as in Alta California myself, you know, it's funny because there , if you're a southern Californian, I mean , uh, uh, you can see I'm a Dutch guy, right? By looking at me. Um, most of us are from German descent where Europeans, Irish and Scottish. And so , uh, you know, what's an American mean? But , um, you know, it's a question I guess of geography , uh, you know, versus language, you know, as geography. Certainly Mexico is a, is a North American nation in our vista, but , uh, in terms of culture , uh, we see the much more Latin American, obviously. But , um, you're right, I do think that because they're, they're our next door neighbor. They're part of , um, this continent. Uh, then we obviously look at 'em as sort of , uh, a distant cousin, and obviously <inaudible> have a very different route because they're made of the same people. And , um, and then there's Puerto Rico, you know, we have that , uh, that little piece that we have to look at where, you know, we are, are at one point is , uh, Puerto Rico gonna be, you know, the 51st state? What's gonna happen there? You know, we can't , we can't bring, can we bring in a , um, uh, a piece to the American pie that , uh, isn't native , uh, speaking English. A lot of challenges like that that make , um, the movement of, of goods and people , uh, uh, challenging. But you're right. Um, it's kind of a gray area in Mexico, but it's, and maybe that's why, you know, as you say, it's probably easier , um, uh, to deal with because , uh, they , they feel very much our neighbors, most of us vacation down there. Uh, and as I say, if you're a Southern Californian , uh, like my wife and I are raised here, but , uh, she's German, I'm Dutch and , and Irish , um, but no one knows how to make a better taco than my wife does, because if you're , if you're a Californian, you're Mexican. I mean, when Ira was raised in San Bernardino, and , um, I thought I was Mexican until I was about, you know, 12 years old, because all of my friends were Mexican. So we we're very integrated here. And so as a result of that , um, we're used to, there are friends, our , we know 'em, they're , uh, relatives oftentimes. Um, so it's, it's something that , uh, is much easier for us to deal with. But when you talk about, you know, past the Panama Canal and beyond, things start to change for us. You know, it's funny how , um, there's sort of a zeitgeist of an era when it comes to countries. Now I'm old enough, I'm 62 years old, so I remember Columbia meaning coffee, you know, the Colombian coffee, everything, the best coffee in the world, coffee, coffee, coffee. And that was on commercials. But then as you move into the eighties, Columbia meant the best marijuana you can get in California, <laugh> . So that's where things become a little bit tricky, is that depending on the age of the person, whether they're a baby boomer, a millennial , uh, uh, a Gen Xer, they're gonna have a different view of a region based . Great

Julio Martinez: 33:21

Point ,

Charlie Webb: 33:22

Guys , when they were, they were raised. And so, you know, we hear Columbian drug lords, I hear, yes , Columbia

Julio Martinez: 33:28

Coffee , Netflix is not helping much <laugh> . No ,

Charlie Webb: 33:30

Exactly. Right .

Julio Martinez: 33:32

So

Charlie Webb: 33:32

I think it's important to, you know, to remember that whether we like it or not, we have the human rhythm of people with their prejudice. Call 'em what you like, but these are prejudice , um, maybe not even so much prejudice. It's more, it's more of a cultural understanding that they have of a nation. And that is going to change. I mean, right now, but China used to just mean bad merchandise to us now. It means a political problem trying to take over the world. Now they're , you know , and cheap product. So they've got a long ways to go in order to change what I would call a very challenging PR problem for China right now. So I think we all have to understand how people see what their worldview is, and for us to understand, you know, how can we better shape, not spin, but how can we shape the story of our nation to where , uh, we address the problems that we may have in the past? Let's don't ignore 'em. Let's, you know, let's not forget what the world may see us as. Let's work with that. Let's try to reshape again, not to respin. Let's reshape that who we are . And that is the entryway, the <inaudible> coming into <inaudible> . Yes . Yeah . I mean, we have to have that gate to come in, and there's a certain amount of things that we, we have to do in order for us to be accepted, you know, worldwide, you know, the US has , um, if when I travel to Europe, sometimes I, I almost wanna put a Canadian flag on me because everybody thinks Americans are loud and obnoxious, and so I tend quiet, you know, but there's a , there's always truth in these little beliefs. I mean, anytime you go , um, worldwide, you can always hear a loud group of people. It's Americans, right? Yeah . So always , yeah ,

Julio Martinez: 35:19

I agree . So

Charlie Webb: 35:20

We , um, we have kind of an image that , um, is warranted and it's a , it's behavior, but, you know, maybe we should, maybe we need to re-spin our, our story that we're just exuberant happy people. Maybe that's PR problem . They're

Julio Martinez: 35:34

Happy people , by the way . They're very friendly, very , very friendly . Yeah . I mean ,

Charlie Webb: 35:37

Worldwide, I think they're the friendliest people for sure. So, but we do, I think , um, in the case of, of countries and, and coming out, you know, we do have to address the potential of xenophobia, how , um, how a culture, and particularly in the United States, we're very slow to take on other cultures. You know, we we're much more comfortable with crunch patties than Flos. And that's our problem. We, we have to, you know, we have to, we're still a burger and fry nation there , really. We talk about America being the melting pot. Um, but that's not really the case. I mean, certainly in Europe , uh, uh, that's much more of a case or in, in big cities in the United States. But we're still, and , and, you know, I don't have a problem with that. I, I believe , um, I was very frustrated when Europe changed into the euro from the unique monies when I travel , because I love the uniqueness of a country. And I, and what I'm saying is, I don't believe anyone should detune their culture in order to fit in with a world commerce. I'm just saying that make your your culture palatable, <laugh> to a world , um, market , and to make sure that, that you allow people the opportunity to get to know you. So I think, you know, with a , the Pacific Alliance, the , the challenge may be coming out of the gate is an introduction to the world and what's capable, what are , what are the fantastic things that are happening? How can we help? Those are the sort of things that are really gonna be asked , I think is the headwater moving into the world market.

Julio Martinez: 37:12

Excellent. Charlie , I love your comments very wise, by the way. And so Charlie, we're close to the end of the show, and the question I always ask my guests towards the end of the show is, what would be your muscles of wisdom? What would be your words of wisdom if you had the CEO of , uh, a US company , uh, looking at Latin America as a place to do clinical trials, commercialize medical technologies or manufacture devices? So what will be, what would be your, your, how would you summarize your wisdom to him or her?

Charlie Webb: 37:41

Well, you know, I think , um, really you're , we're seeing a lot more attendance , um, before we see a trickle of attendance to these world trade show . The trade shows in the medical device industry. Um, and they would come in, they would shake hands, meet a few people, they would take a , a few notes and they would retreat quickly back to their desk. I think really, in order to understand the market you're gonna sell, just like any relationship, the relationship needs to have a higher level of understanding. I would encourage someone who is a, and we've seen other comp , uh, companies have , have done this strategy, is to stay in the United States , uh, or your market, your targeted market , uh, for a month's time. Visit vendors, visit, take tours of facility , um, find out who, how clean rooms are configured, what are the challenges in the US market, because I think it's, it's probably not a , a great idea to try to enter into a market with already fraught with challenges , um, when , uh, of just that connection from one country to another until you understand that the challenges that we have domestically. So when you understand what the US companies, medical device manufacturers are up against in terms of regulatory hurdles , um, you know, right now we're in the middle of a , uh, human crisis, a human talent crisis. So how are, how are these companies , uh, managing those , um, challenges? And when you look at it from the vista of a medical device , uh, manufacturer in the United States, it makes you much more empathetic on how your approach, what your marketing strategies are gonna be coming into the us . So forgetting all about the cultural differences, the , the regulatory issues of coming in, let's pretend your company is a US company, and you have to start that business now. That is gonna give you the deepest amount of insight, in my opinion.

Julio Martinez: 39:32

Perfect. Charlie, thank you so much for being a guest in our show. I look forward to being in touch. I'm sure listeners got a lot out of your wisdom, <laugh> . I

Charlie Webb: 39:41

Hope so . Thank you so much for having me. It's a great pleasure.

Julio Martinez: 39:46

What was that.