EPISODE 75: STEVE SCALIA, PRESIDENT AT TANNER PHARMA GROUP

Episode’s transcript

Julio Martinez: 0:00

Welcome to the Latin Med Tech Leaders podcast, a conversation with med tech leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America. Please subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast. Amazon Music is teacher Tune in iHeart Radio , Pandora or Deezer . Welcome to the Lata MedTech Leaders podcast, a conversation with leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America. Today our guest is Steve Scalia, president of Tanner Pharma Group, a 20-year-old specialist pharmaceutical service provider headquarter in the United States with offices in the United Kingdom, Brazil, Switzerland, and Ireland. So, Steve, it's great to have you here today. Welcome to the show,

Steve Scalia: 0:46

Julio. Can't thank you enough. Um, really appreciate it. And , uh, we love talking about opportunities in Latin America. Beautiful.

Julio Martinez: 0:53

Alright , Steve, let us , let's get started with your journey , uh, to Latin America on a personal and professional level. How is it that you got involved with the region ?

Steve Scalia: 1:01

Well, I love talking about my personal journey. Um, it started with me taking Spanish when I was in elementary school in the United States before they even offered it. My parents made me go to school early, wake up early, go to school early to learn some Spanish. Uh , I didn't learn too much, but I fell in love with it once I became , um, a little bit more adept and, and my parents , uh, sent me to a language school in Mexico for a couple weeks. So I've been passionate about it. I'm not fluent by any means. And , and I like to say that , uh, my Spanish skills involve me understanding about 60% of what I hear, and about 70% of what I say <laugh>.

Julio Martinez: 1:40

That's a great line. <laugh> .

Steve Scalia: 1:43

One more quick story. My, my son was, was struggling with the enjoyment of learning Spanish too, and I said, listen , uh, some of the most beautiful places in the world, they speak Spanish there, and some of the nicest people in the world, they speak Spanish there. And , uh, he got , uh, the following year a new teacher who was just very passionate about the language and now he loves , uh, speaking Spanish , um, even with people in the US that we run into that speak it. So , uh, I've always enjoyed , uh, the business that we do in Latin America interacting with , um, you know, all the people in the various countries and learning how the different business cultures might be slightly different. But also my favorite aspect is just the common ground of how personal businesses in Latin America. Yes . And , uh, our team , um, we have a lot of people who are from Latin America , um, or they're , uh, their , uh, direct descendants or first generation Americans from Latin America where , you know, Spanish might be their first , uh, language. But for me, I've always enjoyed speaking it because there's , uh, you know, the, the compassion and the forgiveness that people have with me butchering the language to some degree.

Julio Martinez: 2:47

I love that. Thank you for that. I mean, as a Latin American, I, I always enjoy when people talk great things about

Steve Scalia: 2:54

<crosstalk> . It's fun. It's been really great for us. Um, the story of our company is a great one too. Uh, and I've only been here for now 10 years. This is my 10th year. We're a company, as you mentioned, that's 20 years old, but I've been best friends with our founder since we were 13 years old. So I had a front row seat when he founded Tanner Pharma Group . And , uh, the quick story there is he is a pharmaceutical , uh, investor originally. And , uh, our parent company is a pharmaceutical investment bank, essentially that does direct investment and also financial advisory all around pharmaceuticals , um, uh, consumer health and pharmac services. So that he really enjoyed this ni this narrow vertical within healthcare that he focuses on, not only through Born partners, but through Tanner Pharma Group. Well, that came from his involvement in a products company called King Pharmaceuticals back in the late nineties. And King was a company that was in the original days of acquiring legacy assets from big pharma. And their focus , like a lot of companies was the us . Um, but then when they went to look for international opportunities, they looked at Latin America and said, well, it's seven or 8% of the global market, and I don't know how we're gonna figure out all the different regulatory environments. So they, they started a new division called their international division, and they learned a lot about doing business in Latin America. And for the companies that were willing to invest the time and the effort and to make strong partnerships in Latin America, it was definitely a region that was worth pursuing. So as a result, our first division was a division that helps companies reach commercial markets in Latin America for pharmaceuticals and for med tech .

Julio Martinez: 4:35

Okay. Fascinating story. Yeah, I love that. That's a great model, by the way. Yeah , I think it's badly needed in the industries. Yeah.

Steve Scalia: 4:42

As you and I have discussed in the past, you know, the , uh, we don't have an over-arching regulatory agency that oversees Latin America or South America , um, like they do in Europe, for example. So , uh, every regulatory agency is different. The market conditions are different. Um, and so it really takes an experience group to help navigate. And when we can create a single point of contact for us , European or Asian pharmaceutical companies that wanna access the market without having to obtain that level of knowledge for themselves, that's where we try to step in and help.

Julio Martinez: 5:16

Fantastic. Excellent. Alright , Steve, so let's talk about trends. What do you see happening in Latin America that are relevant to, to our discussion? Before you answer that , uh, I , I , I think there's a big , big trend that I'd like to talk about. I don't know if you're familiar with the Pacific Alliance now that you mentioned the, the, the , the , uh, fragmentation of , uh, Latin America just hasn't really been a, a , uh, a trade block , uh, or, or a movement to unite countries in Latin America. <laugh> , uh, there was the dream of Simone Believer , you know, the right , uh, the George Washington of , of the Andes Yes . In Latin America . So , uh, the Pacific Alliance is something that is worth , uh, talking about. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's probably the, the best effort , uh, to, to harmonize the regulatory environment in all these countries. So,

Steve Scalia: 6:07

Yeah, and I agree. I think when, when there's a common intention of making things easier , um, and bringing leverage from, from more powerful groups coming together, even if it's countries or regulatory agencies, there's definitely some benefit there. And I , and , and I think it, that it has its best opportunity to succeed now that, because it's got the tailwind of some other global trends that we see as well. One of which is just, you know, the , the, the barriers to information that are coming down as we speak. And , uh, one of our business lines , uh, in addition to the licensing and commercialization with market authorization model is we do a lot of name patient supply when there's , uh, availability of a product in a market like the United States or Europe, and it's not available in Latin America, but a physician sees a need for a specific patient, we get , uh, these , um, almost like emergency use, but a named patient import permit to bring in a product from outside of the country. And, and one of the biggest drivers of demand for that is access to the internet and patients themselves understanding and finding treatments that are out there , um, to , uh, pair that up with the physicians that are attending a lot of international conferences. And the information is out there. So, so there we're in a position where our company globally, but our historic , um, um, roots we're in Latin America for creating more equality between the supply of products that are available in some markets and the demand that's really everywhere. So, yeah, I'm , I'm really hopeful that the alliance can , uh, can bring it together. Uh, 'cause I think it will also increase the access to products that are available to , uh, to the people of Latin America. And , um, we're happy to be on the forefront of that. Until then, we'll just keep , uh, going market by market the best we can and , uh, using local partnerships and , um, our local assets there as well to, to deliver in those markets.

Julio Martinez: 7:58

Yeah, that , that's a, that's a great , uh, topic. Uh, the access to information. Uh, it's something that I, I wasn't really conscious about, but , uh, but it's happening. But it's good that you mentioned that. The , the other topic , um, or the other trend , um, Steve, that I see happening more and more is the OECD, the organization of Economic Corporation and development is the club of wealthy countries around the world. And for the first time ever, a country in Latin America became a member of it , uh, Chile , uh, like seven years ago, something like that. And then Mexico, then Columbia , then , uh, Costa Rica last year. And then Peru is the , in the ascension path . And Brazil just read the news a couple weeks ago that Brazil is also looking into that . So that's gives these access to best practices for economic development, social development , uh, environmental development, and, and of course regulatory best

Steve Scalia: 9:02

Practices. Right, right. Yeah. And if they're sharing of information as well, it can, it can increase the process of approvals of products so the patients don't have to wait as long. And if it becomes easier and there's more companies like, like Tanner or , uh, you know, that can help, then , uh, then maybe there's, we, we can open the door to some of the pharma companies that have been reluctant to , uh, to accessing these markets. Yes,

Julio Martinez: 9:25

Yes. Absolutely. And some of that integration is already happening rapidly in the, and the impact , or do you , you're familiar with that, but the ending impact is Columbia ? Well, Venezuela used to be part of it, but for obvious reasons, it's not part of it anymore . But Columbia , Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, e even citizens can travel. There's no roaming charges. Uh, you can , uh, study in one country and practice medicine or law in another country without licenses. You can also , uh, freely move. You can become a resident of the other country. Uh, you don't need passports. And , um, for cosmetics, there is a single regulatory environment for cosmetics. Okay . Yeah . One approval and you get automatic approval in the rest of the country, which is a beginning step. Yeah,

Steve Scalia: 10:14

Yeah. Um , and we're seeing that as well. Uh, sometimes in , in the past we knew that we couldn't get acceptance of an , of approved pharmaceutical product in one market that would work for another. But there's some collaboration now, some trust. I know , uh, central America as well has , uh, some, some common market authorization , um, um, recognition from other markets that allow. So all of that will help. And, and I, I kind of view it in the, in the broader sense of these global trends. Like we said, it's an information, but it's also , uh, a trend of, of individuals owning their own , uh, um, fate pathway for healthcare, taking control. Um, and instead of just, I , I go down to see my physician when I, when something's wrong, I'm doing my own research. I, I control my own medical records, I control access to. Uh , and so I think when people can move freely, when people have the freedom to , uh, have an input into their own , um, healthcare outcomes, I think we're gonna see really continued rapid advance of , uh, access, which is really what we're trying to facilitate as well.

Julio Martinez: 11:23

Excellent. Steve? Yeah. Alright . So the next question that I usually ask my guest , Steve, is what's your overall perception of the region as a place to do business, as a place to sell drugs or medical technologies, or to conduct clinical research? Because it's becoming also , uh, uh, an interesting destination for, for that. So what are your thoughts on that?

Steve Scalia: 11:43

So again , uh, even going back to the global trends, I , first of all, it's a great , it's an amazing opportunity. Um, if you're looking at it just from a business standpoint, I think there are are pharmaceutical companies that can see a return on investment more easily than maybe they could have 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Um, you've got the development of a middle class , uh, that is growing as rapidly in Latin America as anywhere else. Um, and then you have , uh, you know , uh, uh, more access to more products that are becoming available as well. Um, and , uh, and then , um, when we look at when we're gonna enter the market and we think about , um, what are the types of people that we want to deal with, this is one of the best parts for us is that it's still a relationship based despite the, the , the aspect of , uh, of the information that's out there, it's still relationship based and there's, it's people doing good things for other people. And it's, so I even get beyond the , uh, you know, the return on investment aspect and say we have a real opportunity to do, to lift a lot of people up. And , uh, although, you know, Latin America is probably more advanced than than other regions , uh, are further ahead on that scale. Um , it's just happening so quickly. Um , that's, that's why we see so much opportunity there.

Julio Martinez: 13:05

Beautiful. I'm so glad to hear that . Alright , um, Steve, let's talk about what you guys are doing, what Tanner is doing in Latin America. What ambitions plans , uh, Tanner have? So,

Steve Scalia: 13:17

Yeah, even, even from a , a med tech standpoint, we have , uh, a background in pharma and also in devices. Um , one of our first devices was actually classified a device. It was a collagen sponge that was used as a surgical implant, especially in surgical procedures that were at high risk of infection. And this collagen sponge was infused with Gentamicin, which is a, a high dose of Gentamicin, a very strong broad spectrum antibiotic that when it was left in the surgical site, it could , uh, um, help to eliminate or reduce the risk of surgical site infection. So that, for us, was classified as a device in Mexico and a couple of other markets. It was a, a product that was originally launched by shearing plow and then divested. Um, and we were , uh, fortunate enough for that to be one of the earliest products that we in licensed and commercialized in Latin America. So , um, I will say although regulatory agencies historically don't , um, uh, accelerate or facilitate their, their processes, sometimes they get a little bit more bureaucratic. We have seen a big , uh, difference between the approval process for , uh, devices versus pharmaceuticals, even devices that include , um, you know , uh, that are invasive, like a surgical sponge , um, uh, or, or a , uh, maybe a , uh, gastro product that is non-pharmaceutical base. So it's an accelerated regulatory atmosphere. So we are constantly looking for devices in med tech that could be , um, commercialized in Latin America . We had , um, also, we had one, we looked into some molecular diagnostics for a while and realized that that wasn't gonna be our strength. Um, the technology was changing so quickly and almost more , uh, more the pricing was also changing almost more quickly than, you know, flat screen TVs. For example, the , by the time we were gonna get , uh, in licensed and then , uh, out licensed to some local distributors and some labs , um, the price had already fallen 40%. And we felt like it was gonna be hard for us to keep up with that level of cutting edge technology. So , uh, usually for us on devices, we're gonna look for something that's a little bit more long term and stable. Uh, we're really excited right now about a product we're looking at called Eye Immune . And it , it is a , um, a , a a test that, that tests the , uh, indicators for immunosuppression. So when, for patients that are going through procedures like , uh, B mo , bone marrow transplant, or other biologics that suppress the immune system , uh, we've got this great product called Eye Immune , which actually uses a PCR measurement device instead of , um, instead of , uh, flow cytometry to do the testing. And , uh, we think it's really gonna help to increase access to diagnostics that wasn't there before. Um, this is gonna be one of these side benefits. Uh, with all the difficulty we went through, through the covid , uh, pandemic. Um , one of the things that benefited a lot of us will be the prevalence of PCR machines. And with those PCR machines, now that we can measure things without flow cytometry , uh, at a less expensive , uh, cost per test , uh, it's gonna provide better diagnostics. And, and even in some of the , um, donation programs we're involved in , um, we help support the MAX Foundation, which is a global NGO that helps cancer patients , uh, especially chronic cancer patients receive free , uh, products , um, for , in a lot of cases, diagnosing , uh, CML, which is , uh, is is the product that it's the , it's the indication they're most focused on the , it's the diagnosis that is sometimes the biggest barrier to entry to getting a patient product that they need. So we're really excited about that. Um, getting the approval is more like , uh, uh, not exactly med tech , but , uh, from a diagnostic standpoint it's more like a device. So we see that accelerating as well. And when you have molecular diagnostic testing that is available to a broader population and we can increase our knowledge at the physician and the patient level, then we can increase the treatments and, and suddenly make a really big impact.

Julio Martinez: 17:30

Excellent. I'm glad to hear that. Very good. I mean , <laugh>

Steve Scalia: 17:32

Yeah, we're excited.

Julio Martinez: 17:33

Newer , yeah. Newer technologies in the region because , uh, one of the things that , uh, you and I were , uh, speaking about before starting the the recording is the , the , uh, what I call the innovation gap of Latin America , Steve , where patients have delayed access to advanced medical technologies. Right ? So it's really a shame that , um, uh, a patient in Peru or in in Bolivia doesn't have the same level of care, the same , uh, products available , uh, to treat him or her , uh, than a patient in the United States or Europe. And, and a lot of that is because of the ignorance or the, the , the unfamiliarity with the region and the opportunities that the region , uh, has to offer,

Steve Scalia: 18:14

Right? And, and this is what one of the things we're most proud of at Tanner Pharma Group is our core purpose. It is about improving lives, and in our case, it's improving lives by providing access to pharmaceuticals and devices and , and diagnostics , um, to all parts of the world. So anything we can do to make that impact, we're measuring our impact and, and we wake up every morning, we know why we're doing what we're doing. Um, that's why we love talking to folks like you. As , as anytime we can increase information, increase awareness , um, then we can all do better at trying to , uh, bring more , um, equity to healthcare. And I, and I'm, I'm optimistic, you know, only because I've seen the acceleration of the gap changing, and, and it's not enough to sit back and pat ourselves on the back yet. Um, I, I feel like we've got an obligation, especially in countries like the United States , uh, countries in Europe where we have access to pretty much everything. And even when I have to tell at a , you know , um, friends or, or , or people who ask me what I do , uh, I, I try to have them imagine, listen, we're in the United States, every single product that's available in the world is available here. And, and we don't know what it's like to have to import something. We don't know what it's like to go visit our physician and have them say, unfortunately, I don't have access to a product that could treat you. So , uh, so we, I feel like there's an obligation for us to try to make things more equitable. And the way we can do that is to help bridge communication, but also help bridge distribution , um, into markets where there's a need and there's just no, there's no availability. And we see it changing fast. So if we can continue to accelerate , um, you know, maybe we can look on this pretty soon and say, you know , um, we've, we've leveled the playing field.

Julio Martinez: 20:06

I echo that Steve, well said. Because , uh, our mission is also , uh, also centers around that, I mean , uh, around closing the innovation gap in Latin America and with the clinical trials that we do. I mean, it is impressive. It's so rewarding to see a patient that has access to an innovative technology that has never been tested before, but is promising and, and, and, and it can, it can alleviate a chronic disease or, or a chronic pain that he's, he or she's been suffering for 30 years. And if it wasn't for the clinical trial , uh, that we bring to, to a country like Columbia , for example , uh, he or she wouldn't have access to that , uh, therapy or that device. So it's very rewarding to see that,

Steve Scalia: 20:51

Hey, on , on the topic of clinical trials too, I admire what you guys are are doing there, and , uh, as we've discussed , um, there's some areas of collaboration that we'll continue to pursue, but , um, there's a rich history of clinical trials in Latin America. Yes . I think a lot of people look overlook and, and there's a rich, rich history of manufacturing in Latin America , um, that has, has sort of transferred to now its IP of , uh, of the Latin people, you know, as far as I'm concerned. And they, and they, there's, and there's a lot more that has originated , uh, in Latin America than I think people give credit for as well. I mean, our, our , our, our business model is to bridge the gap and to, to provide access to products that are not available locally, but we're working with companies on a daily basis that have their own manufacturing, they have their own development. And , uh, in the case of clinical trials, one of the global trends we're seeing is a decentralization and a diversification of clinical trials. These are really strong tailwinds. Um , and part of what , uh, has been attracted to some CROs and some sponsors about the clinical services we can provide is that they align to this backbone of quality regulatory and distribution that we've built over the years to be able to help access these markets. And even though some of these , uh, manufacturers and developers are a little bit late to the game, looking for how they can diversify their clinical trials when they find us, when they find bio access , and then they have an ability to instantly come in with, with companies that have 20, 30 years of experience, it's not new to us. What, what is easier for us is, is very difficult for them. And it's, that's the definition of partnership as far as I'm concerned. They've got something, we don't have a great product and development that can help. They need a diverse population , um, of patients within their trial. They need to go outside of the US or Europe, and we can easily help them do that. And, and it's, it's the types of relationships like the one we have that helps facilitate , um, you know, those , uh, those trials and those advancements in medicine.

Julio Martinez: 22:56

Absolutely. Yeah. And a lot of countries in Latin America are seeing this, Steve , as an opportunity to bring foreign direct investment into the country. And, and , and , and I mean, it's a combination of investment and export , uh, of services. Uh, hospitals do not have to depend on the healthcare system of a country, you know, the issues related to delayed payments, corruption, all that. But here with the clinical trial, they have access to innovative technologies. They can publish papers , uh, and they can , uh, get paid in dollars fast, really fast. Yeah . As opposed to the healthcare system. So it's a win-win for, for everybody, including the patient .

Steve Scalia: 23:33

Hey , there's also a great value in , um, in the , the populations of Latin America too. There's such a di a diverse genetic background. There's been so much opportunity and there's been so many people who have been attracted to the continent that I think that is what helps with the diversity as well. We've had , uh, we've helped some , um, Asian companies where their phase three trials only included Asian population, and we had to expand into Caucasians and, and , uh, uh, running trials has really beneficial because of the diversity too , of, of the people that , um, it, it, it's usually easy to get those approved, and then if we run them to local standards as well, it helps us to get a market authorization, you know, shortly after the trial. So there's a lot of benefits to doing clinical trials, I think, in Latin America. Um , and I think we're just seeing the beginning. I would say that the, the move to clinical trials is probably even behind the move to access to approved products. So I think I'm really excited to see , um, how you guys do here , uh, going forward. But I think , um, a lot of potential there.

Julio Martinez: 24:36

Yes, yes, I agree. And also because of what's happening with the UMDR is becoming a lot difficult and , and without mentioning the war, right? <laugh> . Yeah , right . So companies are looking for destinations for clinical research. A lot of our clients , um, think about Poland, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Georgia, and, and before Latin America. So these tailwind is, is, I mean, it's unfortunate for Ukrainian people, but , uh, it may benefit Latin America anyway , Steve, so let's talk a little bit about , uh, your business model in the region. You have a presence in Brazil. I I imagine you have a large operation. What else do you have operation? Uh, you have a hybrid model, some countries you have distributors. How is it?

Steve Scalia: 25:18

Yep . We've got , uh, we've got boots on the ground in Brazil , uh, Columbia and Mexico. We have an actual entity in Brazil, which is why we list that as a location. But our licensing , um, acquisition and commercialization division has a lot of , uh, its own team members dispersed throughout Latin America. And a lot of those individuals are regulatory in nature, constantly meeting with, negotiating with and, and shepherding applications through the regulatory agencies. Many of them are, are commercial in nature , um, working with local , um, pharma companies, distributors , um, importers to , uh, facilitate commercial operations. Uh, and then we're constantly doing research on market need and , uh, uh, product assessments by market. Um, so even though our headquarters is in the us , uh, we, we really feel , uh, it's beneficial to have local , um, team, especially local team with experience from pharma companies as well, because they also know the local , uh, regulatory and cultural elements. So, so we're expanding both with our own boots on the ground and with partnerships locally. Um, sometimes if we have a special regulatory need, we could hire , um, you know, specific contractors for that need, but essentially we're a turnkey solution for innovators, manufacturers, and developers that don't have the time and don't wanna build out their knowledge. So ours is based in large part on our existing team, but really on the relationships that we've built over the last 20 years. Oh,

Julio Martinez: 26:51

Yes. Yeah. Excellent. Steve, and , and , um, what country stands out for different resources? I mean, what comes to mind in terms of , uh, higher growth in the business, or, I don't know . I mean, what country you like the most in Latin America?

Steve Scalia: 27:08

Well, that's a good question. Um, there's, I , I , I can name several and I'll , I'll tell you why, too. Uh , I might start with , um, with Venezuela and really just more of a prayer and a hope that they can, we can get things back on track before I joined the company. But when the company started, Venezuela was , uh, at the top, if not the top market in Latin America. So it's, it's tragic to see what's happened to the good, good people over there. And we're , you know , um, hearts and prayers, just hoping that , uh, we can get back to a , a standpoint where we can, 'cause the gap has just grown so much between access and and ability that , uh, we , we really want to try to do more there. I'd say , um, on the opposite end of that, but a smaller market is Chile. You had mentioned , um, you know, them joining international , uh, trade groups and , um, you know, there , there's , uh, I think despite the smaller population from a market standpoint, there's a sophistication in their ability to pay. And , um, and I'd say they're , maybe 'cause they're a younger , uh, government as well, things are a little bit more streamlined. So we've enjoyed doing business there. Um, you know, the anchors have always been , uh, Mexico and Brazil just from a population standpoint. And a lot of times our analysis of opportunity starts with those two markets. And if we can get one of those to work, then it's a viable opportunity. Uh , but , uh, I , believe me, I'm not leaving Columbia off the list . <laugh> , I'm saving it, I'm saving it best for last . Julio ,

Julio Martinez: 28:37

We love ,

Steve Scalia: 28:38

We love doing work in Columbia. The , the people are great. There's , uh, it's a great mix and, and we had talked about the growth , um, before of , um, you know, a middle class population. There's also a lot of pride, and this is throughout Latin America, but I would specifically mention Columbia as well, where pride in being able to , um, um, procure your own healthcare, be responsible for your own , um, see a lot of that as being a strong fundamental towards the growth of, of better healthcare outcomes when the people have enough, have the pride to take responsibility for , um, for their healthcare. So , uh, we like that. It's sort of a , um, you know, there , uh, there's a lot of ingenuity and a lot of drive to , uh, to improve things. So we love business, doing business there too as well.

Julio Martinez: 29:23

Good, good. Any comments about Argentina? Where are your thoughts in the

Steve Scalia: 29:26

Yeah, so Argentina also used to be a big one for us. Uh, we have had , um, some cautionary tales in the past, just , uh, and, and, and, and I think this may be improving, but , uh, for our partners and for us , uh, the security of the intellectual property is really important. So when we bring a dossier to the regulatory agency , uh, getting that approval and getting the protections that come from a market authorization are important to the viability of the product and the trust that we're developing, not only with the partner, but with the local , uh, healthcare systems, hospitals, physicians, and the people who were using the product. So there were , uh, you know , uh, some incidents where , uh, branded products quickly turned to generics from, from Argentinian manufacturers. So we've had to be a little bit more cautious. And it's unfortunate, and I don't mind saying it here, because hopefully if the message were delivered, I think it comes from a good place where , uh, the Argentinian government wants to protect , uh, you know, the argentines and, and their interests and their companies. And I understand that, but when trust is fragile , uh, it makes it tougher for new opportunities to come in. And I can say that we've had some , uh, manufacturers, developers , um, when we were able to show them the landscape , uh, turned down opportunities in Argentina for fear of their IP being shared. So , um, but uh, having said that , uh, it is a great market. The products that we've had there have typically outperformed , uh, projections and , uh, and obviously great, great people as well too. So , uh,

Julio Martinez: 31:00

Yeah , great food as well. <laugh>, beautiful architecture, beautiful cities . Buenos Aires is a yes. It's a fascinating place to visit. Yeah. Alright, so , uh, Steve, we're close to the end of the show. And , uh, any final , uh, thoughts, more sorts of wisdom, what would you say, in other words, to the CEO of with a beer in your hand? <laugh> with this to the CEO of a , a , a newer medical technology or pharma or biotech company in the US is just exploring newer markets for

Steve Scalia: 31:29

His company . Yep . I, I would say get on the train before it le before it's going too fast for you to jump on. I'd say, you know, the Latin America train has , uh, you know, a full tank of diesel fuel and is accelerating at every moment. And , uh, but don't do it alone. There's plenty of people who would love to partner with you to make things easier. And even if it's not Tanner Pharma Group , um, the, the region is, is full of great people who just want better healthcare outcomes. Um, they want , uh, you know, better access and they're willing to work really hard for it. So , uh, you know, I'd, I I'd say , uh, too , you know, the , the global trend, people can see the growth of Latin America and we like to joke that we were in Latin America before it was cool to be in Latin America, but pretty soon it might be too crowded. So let's hurry up and get involved and , uh, do what you can.

Julio Martinez: 32:21

Look at what Disney just did a movie about Columbia and prior to that was a movie about Mexico. I was like shocked when I saw that. They were like, wow, this portraying Columbia as a , as a destination. I mean , I loved it. I love so Latin America is certainly , uh, becoming sexier <laugh> for Americans .

Steve Scalia: 32:39

I , I agree. I agree. But, you know, it's, it's long overdue. 'cause the fundamentals have always been there. It's just , uh, sometimes the world's a little bit late, but Julio, if we can keep doing what we're doing to increase awareness , uh, increase access and availability , uh, yeah. And then there's no opportunity really too small for us either. We'll, we'll look at anything and, and, and at the very least, if everybody agrees, maybe that it's not viable, everyone's learned a lot. We're willing to share the knowledge we look at on the front end. So I think that's the other thing we learned too, is just the willingness to, to collaborate is really high , um, in the region. And I , I think trust is high as well. So , um, it's a great, it's a great place and we've , uh, had a great history there and we look forward to doing more.

Julio Martinez: 33:21

Beautiful. Beautiful. And , uh, right before, I mean, I don't wanna , um, talk about something different from what I had planned here, the podcast, but just outta curiosity, you guys , um, have, I imagine a business development machine going in the United States or Europe looking for newer technologies, newer drugs to bring to Latin America, right? So you absolutely . You got co be an aggressive company .

Steve Scalia: 33:45

You got it. We attend all the conferences. We talk with , uh, small innovators. We talk with , uh, the largest conglomerates. Um , 'cause even the larger groups that may have , uh, affiliates in some of the bigger markets, they can't cover all the markets. So they , uh, uh, you know, without using, at the very least the distribution network. And we think that our model , um, allows for more control and better growth prospects than just a , uh, just a distribution model. So when we can centralize and we can add some input and some oversight to commercial efforts, we can help with regulatory, we can help with , uh, planning , uh, manufacturing planning and projections. Um, this is sort of a holistic approach to commercialization and access that, that we try to provide. So, so yeah, we are constantly , uh, meeting with companies. We've got the benefit of having a parent company born partners that's in the deal flow for all the pharma products that are out there. A lot of times divestitures are an opportunity as well when a company that did have local affiliates divest a product, but they, they don't, the , the , the new buyer doesn't have infrastructure in Latin America, for example. And we can help backfill those capabilities. So a lot of different ways for us to do that. Yeah, we've got a BD team that works , um, across our entire company looking for different opportunities.

Julio Martinez: 35:00

Excellent. So Steve, I mean, excellent work. You guys are doing this , a lot of in common that we have here. So , uh, I loved , uh, interviewing you here , uh, today in the Leaders podcast . I look forward to being in touch . Thank you so much ,

Steve Scalia: 35:14

Much more to come .